hanzze_ wrote:Jason c,
Eating does not mean to kill. That is something that needs to be understood. But to desire something gives the way to harm. All living beings, where ever they are. Try to think a little deeper, otherwise it could be that you would see that your kind of food you have taken had harmed much more beings and much more lives.
They will blame you to be a killer and you just didn't know, you just didn't thought deeper.
Do not think that others are angry, maybe they just like to help you a little, maybe they had such amount of insight also and are just grown a little wiser. I am sure there is nobody angry, maybe some that they can not explain their personal problems but we need to grow by our self.
Jason, some times ago I was also angry about this "silly" people proclaiming just vegan or vegetarian food, sitting right there where forest is burned in front of my eyes and animals are killed incl. their habitats for the western food industry. But one day one does understand, that all this anger comes form ones own faults and ideas of right and wrong.
When you do not have a share on evil things, you would not be that touched. As told, you could be shocked a second time. Try to investigate more and try to understand why Buddha did not say, eating meat is a evil deed.
Ever tried to eat just what is freely given?
When you start to see that somebody ordering this food or that food, has the same desire for pleasure in it like you, you will develop compassion for both. Your self and the other and you will start to archive the freedom form desire and because you know, if you have attained it for your self, fist you are free of own faults and you are able to teach the eightfold path to others as well, to free them from the root problem of using others to maintain once own coming into being another time.
hanzze_ wrote:Sound much better, but still some anger inside it. Give it a time, it is better if you are at the point that you just eat want is given to your and most best, if you had reached Arahant ship. Till then there will be always the fetter mana (pride/conceit: better I am, equal I am, worse I am), we can lighten it in a way we focus more on actions then on persons. When we are comparing actions and there results and go further (as we can not compare intentions easily) and keep on digging on our intentions, we find more solutions and more peace.
Ever thought of give it a try to take the alms bow rather to make your self crazy in doing the right choice while still taking? You might also develop much more compassion for people who do not much care about reducing their greed. They would even have a chance to learn to give a share of what is taken to much, while you cross their doors accepting what ever they give.
jason c wrote:if my writing is sounding less angry thats great, i am new to using the computer, writing my thoughts and trying to express myself is very difficult. i'm feeling very misunderstood and a little judged. i feel like people are trying to get a handle on me, and want to put me in a box and lable me this way or that way (of this opinion or that opinion). when i write i'm trying to be peaceful, but get a point across at the same time, and i feel as though my limitations or lack of writings skills may be a bit of a barrier.
i feel like i've thoroughly annoyed cittasanto.
We Must Eat Time
What is life? Life is eating and drinking through all of our senses. And life is keeping from being eaten. What eats us? Time! What is time? Time is living in the past or living in the future, feeding on the emotions. Beings who can say that they have mentally healthy for even one minute are rare in the world. Most of us suffer from clinging to pleasant, unpleasant, and neutral feelings, and from hunger and thirst. Most living beings have to eat and drink every second through their eyes, ears, nose, tongue, skin, and nerves. We eat twenty-four hours a day without stopping! We crave food for the body, food for feeling, food for volitional action, and food for rebirth. We are what we eat. We are the world, and we eat the world.
The Buddha cried when he saw this endless cycle of suffering: the fly eats the flower; the frog eats the fly; the snake eats the frog; the bird eats the snake; the tiger eats the bird; the hunter kills the tiger; the tiger‘s body become swollen; flies come and eat the tiger‘s corpse; the flies lay eggs in the corpse; the eggs become more flies; the flies eat the flowers; and the frogs eat the flies...
And so the Buddha said, „I teach only two things - suffering and the end of suffering.“ Suffering, eating, and feeling are exactly the same.
Feelings eats everything. Feeling has six mouths - the eye, ear, nose, tongue, body and mind. The first mouth eats forms through the eye. The second mouth eats sound. The third mouth eats smells. The fourth mouth eats tastes. The fifth mouth eats physical contact. And the last mouth eats ideas. That is feeling.
Time is also an eater. In traditional Cambodian stories, there is often a giant with many mouths who eats everything. This giant is time. If you eat time, you gain nirvana. You can eat time by living in the moment. When you live just in this moment, time cannot eat you.
Everything is causational. There is no you, only causes and conditions. Therfore, you cannot hear or see. When sound and ear comes together, there is hearing. When form and eye meet, there is seeing.
When eye, form and consciousness meet, there is eye contact. Eye contact conditions feeling. Feeling conditions perception. Perceptions thinking, and thinking is I, my, me - the painful misconception that I see, hear, smell, taste, touch, and think.
Feeling uses the eye to eat shapes. If a shape is beautiful, a pleasant feeling enters the eye. If a shape is not beautiful, it brings a unpleasant feeling. If we are not attentive to a shape, a neutral feeling comes. The ear is the same: sweet sounds bring pleasant feelings, harsh sounds bring unpleasant feelings, and inattantion brings neutral feelings.
Again, you may think, “I am seeing, I am hearing, I am feeling.” But it is not you, it is only contact, the meeting of the eye, form, and eye-consciousness. It is only the Dharma.
A man once asked the Buddha, “Who feels?” The Buddha answered, “This is not a real question.” No one feels. Feeling feels. There is no I, my, or me. There is only the Dharma.
All kinds of feelings are suffering, filled with vanity, filled with “I am.” If we can penetrate the nature of sensations, we can realize the pure happiness of nirvana.
Feelings and sensations causes us to suffer, because we fail to realize that they are impermanent. The Buddha asked, “How can feeling be permanent if it depends upon the body, which is impermanent?” When we do not control our feelings, we are controlled by them. If we live in the moment, we can see things just as they are. Doing so, we can put an end to all desire, break out bondage, and realize peace.
To understand pleasant, unpleasant, and neutral feelings, we have to put the four foundations of mindfulness into practice. Mindfulness can transform pleasant, unpleasant, and neutral feelings into wisdom.
The world is created by the mind. If we can control feelings, then we can control the mind. If we can control the mind, then we can rule the world.
In meditation, we relax our body, but we sit up straight, and by following our breathing of another object of concentration, we stop most of our thinking. Therefore, we stop being pushed around by our feelings. Thinking greats feeling, and feeling creates thinking. To be free from clinging to thinking and feeling is nirvana - the highest, supreme happiness.
To live without suffering means to live always in the present. The highest happiness is here and now. There is no time at all unless we cling to it. Brothers and Sisters, please eat time!
from Maha Ghosanada "Step by Step"
Munika the pig
Once on a time when Brahmadatta was reigning in Benares, the Bodhisatta came to life as an ox, named Big Red, on the squire’s estate in a certain hamlet. And he had a younger brother who was known as Little Red. There were only these two brothers to do all the draught work of the family. Also, the squire had an only daughter, whose hand was asked I marriage for his son by a gentleman of the town. And the parents of the girl, with a view to furnishing dainty fare  for the wedding guests, began to fatten up a pig named Munika.
Observing this, Little Red said to his brother, “All the loads that have to be drawn for this household are drawn by you and me, my brother; but all they give us for our pains is sorry grass and straw to eat. Yet here is the pig being victualled on rice! What can be the reason why he should be treated to such fare?”
Said his brother, “My dear Little Red, envy him not; for the pig eats the food of death. It is but to furnish a relish for the guests at their daughter’s wedding, that the family are feeding up the pig. Wait but a little time and the guests will be legs, killed, and in process of conversion into curry.” And so saying, he repeated this stanza:-
Then envy not poor Munika; ’tis death
He eats. Contented munch your frugal chaff,
The pledge and guarantee of length of days.
Not long afterwards the guests did arrive; and Munika was killed and cooked into all manner of dishes. Said the Bodhisatta to Little Red, “Did you see Munika, dear brother?” “ I have indeed seen, brother, the outcome of Munika’s feasting. Better a hundred, nay a thousand, times than such food is ours, though it be but grass, straw, and chaff; for our fare harms us not, and is a pledge that our lives will not be cut short.”
corrine wrote:If killing is wrong, and I think everyone would agree that Buddhists are not supposed to kill, especially not on purpose, then eating something that has to be killed in order for us to eat it, is inherently wrong. Isn't it?
corrine wrote:More importantly, why do so many people become so emotionally upset about vegetarianism.
Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:81 pages! This topic has been boiled, stewed, and fried to death. Perhaps all new contributors should be forced to read it all before adding another post.corrine wrote:More importantly, why do so many people become so emotionally upset about vegetarianism.
Why do vegetarians become so emotionally upset about meat-eating? In both cases, it is attachment to views that lies at the root of the problem. Just check your intention, which is what the Buddha called kamma. One makes the unwholesome kamma of killing living beings in four ways:
When fruit and vegetables are grown, they are almost always sprayed with insecticides, and vermin such as rabbits are poisoned or trapped. If a farmer sells both rabbit meat and cabbages, what's the difference between buying and eating the rabbit meat and the cabbages? Is anyone blameworthy for eating fruit or vegetables that involve the intentional killing of insects in their production?
- By killing with one's own hand
- By urging others to kill
- By condoning killing i.e. allowing others to kill when one has the power to prevent it. For example, if there is a fish pond on your property, if you allow fishermen to use the pond you are involved in the killing. If poachers kill the fish without your permission you have no involvement. Even if you know, and do nothing to stop them (whether fearful of your own safety, or just too busy, or too tired)
- By delighting in killing, e.g. being pleased when a murderer is executed, of if an enemy meets with a fatal accident