Page 110 of 380

Re: the great vegetarian debate

Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 10:41 am
by dhammapal

the great vegetarian debate

Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 1:50 pm
by octathlon
cooran wrote:
octathlon wrote:Hi Cooran,
I saw that article (in the OP) yesterday and found it very interesting so I googled for more details. It seems to come down to the amount of omega-3 (good) vs. omega-6 (not good) fat that we are taking in, and if we eat a lot of omega-6 it crowds out the omega-3, so even if you take a lot of fish oil or flaxseed oil to get your -3, it tathlondoesn't do much good if you still eat too much -6.
Here's a link to a blog of someone who has experimented with different diets and then compared blood chemistry results: http://www.happyhealthylonglife.com/hap ... sults.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

One interesting thing I read was that in spring/summer, animals (and people) would naturally eat the available leafy stuff (high -3) and in the fall/winter when they need to store fat for the winter, they eat the now-available seeds and nuts which are high in -6 and cause the metabolism to slow down and fat to be stored.

Anyway, I looked at what I ate and of course it was the opposite of what the Esselstyn diet recommends. For example I eat a lot of peanut butter, sunflower seeds, etc. and they are almost all omega-6 fat. I would like to figure out the healthiest way to eat but there is just too much conflicting info out there. I like the idea of experimenting with a certain diet for a while and observing the effects.

Since I would say food is one of the most significant areas of craving I have, I'm interested in learning to view food as simply fuel. The problem is, I think I am really just suppressing my cravings rather than actually letting go of anything. I believe there are specific meditations to help with this.
Hello Octathlon, all,

No need to be a vegan - in the Kitava study they looked at subsistence horticulturalists in Kitaka, Trobriand Islands, Papua New Guinea. The diet of these people is tubers, fruit, fish, and coconut which are staples – but dairy products, refined fat and sugar, cereals and alcohol are absent and salt intake is low. Of course, an article on a CNN website as linked to in the OP is only meant to give a ''heads-up'', and those who wish to know more will look further. That is how I came across the Kitava Study link - and I'm getting the book to look further.

with metta
Chris
??? You quoted my post but seemed to be answering/addressing something else.

the great vegetarian debate

Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 11:34 pm
by Jhana4
Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn will talk about plant-based diets tonight at 8 p.m. on CNN
http://www.heartattackproof.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

the great vegetarian debate

Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 9:52 am
by PeterB
1) Not all cardiac disease is due to plaque. A proportion is caused by non-preventable factors. Many of them hereditary.
2) Cardiac arrest is not a bad way to go compared to some other possibilities.
3) Whatever the diet, mortality rates are currently running at 100%.

the great vegetarian debate

Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 11:59 am
by Jhana4
Jhana4 wrote:Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn will talk about plant-based diets tonight at 8 p.m. on CNN
http://www.heartattackproof.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I heard that this has been rescheduled.

the great vegetarian debate

Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 12:03 pm
by Jhana4
PeterB wrote:1) Not all cardiac disease is due to plaque.
Most of it in the developed world is and most of it is preventable with different choices.
2) Cardiac arrest is not a bad way to go compared to some other possibilities.
Tell that to my father and his wife, they have both had bypass operations. I've seen what it has done to them.

the great vegetarian debate

Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:01 pm
by PeterB
When I said " to go" I meant just that. Not attempts to prolong life beyond its natural functioning.
A cardiac arrest is a good way to die, compared to most of the alternative ways to die.

And mortality is still currently running at 100%.

the great vegetarian debate

Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:10 pm
by PeterB
Jhana4 wrote:
PeterB wrote:1) Not all cardiac disease is due to plaque.
Most of it in the developed world is and most of it is preventable with different choices.
2) Cardiac arrest is not a bad way to go compared to some other possibilities.
Tell that to my father and his wife, they have both had bypass operations. I've seen what it has done to them.

There are many causes of Cardiac disease, many have no or little connection to arterial plaque. They include the ischemias and various types of valvular disease. plus a whole variety of conditions affecting the cardiac muscles.
Few are preventable by dietary means...although some are preventable with exercise.

the great vegetarian debate

Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:43 pm
by Jhana4
PeterB wrote:When I said " to go" I meant just that. Not attempts to prolong life beyond its natural functioning.
A cardiac arrest is a good way to die, compared to most of the alternative ways to die.

And mortality is still currently running at 100%.
I've talked with many people who have had strokes and heart attacks. It may be a less harsh method of death, than say burning to death, but it is not a "good way to die".

Yes everyone dies, but most people despite what they may say, if given the choice between a shorter life and a longer life with more of their abilities intact would choose the longer life.

the great vegetarian debate

Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 2:06 pm
by PeterB
No doubt. But for for a number of reasons that is not in our own gift to ourselves.
Living a mindful, sila based life for our life span, whether that is thirty, forty, or one hundred years IS.

the great vegetarian debate

Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 3:59 am
by alan
That diet seems to have been built around the same basics I've been talking about. Fish--good protein. Root veg like sweet potato is a fibrous carb. Coconut? Yeah. You know I'm all in favor of coconut.
The heart-healthy part of the diet is the fact that they have no way to eat simple sugars, and that is great for them. But you don't have to emulate their diet--you can do better. Become aware of the macronutrients and the role the play, and choose your source of nutriment based upon rational decisions. Makes sense, doesn't it?

the great vegetarian debate

Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 1:54 pm
by Jhana4
I've met Dr. Esselstyn in person and have been to his lectures about a half dozen times. His anti-heart attack diet is similar to Dr. Dean Ornishes and is primarily a whole foods, high fiber, low fat vegan diet.

the great vegetarian debate

Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 10:39 pm
by santa100
Ever wonder about the cause of high cholesterol, heart diseases, strokes, etc....? We "civilzied" humans have done lots of weird stuff that our bodies aren'r really designed for. Our species wasn't designed to sit and stare at computer screens 8 hours or more a day. We rarely use our legs. Just hop onto a vehicle, a car, a motorcycle, etc. and push the gas pedal. We rarely get 8 hours of sleep per day. We rarely breathe fresh air outdoor. After work, we get home and lock ourselves inside the box, sit and watch TV or surf the Net for another 5 or 6 hours. Then fill our belly with junk food. The Gym is a product only found in modern society. Our ancestors didn't need it and yet they were a lot more fit than us. We live longer than them not because we're healthier, but because modern technology is able to load our body with tons of powerful chemicals to keep it going. So, you dont' really need any 'heart attack proof' diet, you just need to undo those nasty habits above. Eat a healthy, balanced diet (vegetarian or not), exercise a lot (especially outdoor aerobics like jogging, biking, hiking...), and maintain a positive and healthy mind. That's all you need..

the great vegetarian debate

Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 3:36 am
by Jhana4
USA Today: Bill Clinton declares vegan victory

President Clinton is following the diet Dr. Esselstyn prescribes in his book "Heart Attack Proof"

Re: the great vegetarian debate

Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 3:37 am
by Jhana4