the great vegetarian debate

An open and inclusive investigation into Buddhism and spiritual cultivation

Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby Ron-The-Elder » Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:16 pm

Now, this is not to say that eating even fruit is free from health risks. There is method of preparation to consider, and contamination from parasites and pathogens such as E-Coli.

See for example a request for assistance from Bhikkhu Samahita:

uddha-Direct 2844: Urgent Medicine Request!‏

Groups, Newsletters, Photos | 8/07/12
Reply ▼
Bhikkhu Samahita
Schedule cleanup
To 1. 1A, 1. 2A
Dear Dhamma Friends & Supporters:
Unfortunately have I again contracted a parasite infection called Schistosomiasis
(also known as liver-fluke, bilharzia, bilharziosis or snail fever)! from the infected wild
pigs living here in this jungle, who excrement in the mountain stream water supply here…
Some medicine is therefore needed, which is not available here on Sri Lanka. (See below)
If any of you kind Dhamma-friends could get the medicine from your hospital or doctor
or pharmacy/pharmacist or health-care-provider and send it here, it would be VERY fine.
Since the parasite eggs can spread to the brain and spinal cord, which effectively would
disable me completely, then the medicine is somewhat urgently needed!




NEEDED MEDICINE:

A:
Tablets PRAZIQUANTEL 600mg: 36 tablets (for treatment)
(brands: Distoside, Biltricide, Cesol, Cysticide, Zentozide)



and

B: Tablets ARTEMETHER 40, 50 or 100 mg: 300 tablets
(for 1 years prevention)



Send to Mail Address:
Venerable Bhikkhu Samahita
Cypress Hermitage, Bambarella
20838 Tawalantenna
Kandy, Central Province.
SRI LANKA
Phone: (+94) 081 562 0553
Email: bhikkhu.samahita@What-Buddha-Said.net

Many Thanx in Advance :-)
What Makes an Elder? :
A head of gray hairs doesn't mean one's an elder. Advanced in years, one's called an old fool.
But one in whom there is truth, restraint, rectitude, gentleness,self-control, he's called an elder, his impurities disgorged, enlightened.
-Dhammpada, 19, translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.
User avatar
Ron-The-Elder
 
Posts: 1056
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 4:42 pm
Location: Concord, New Hampshire, U.S.A.

Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby Cittasanto » Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:39 am

hi Ron,
Ron-The-Elder wrote:Dear Friend Cittasanto: And your point is?

there is a reason I said you are expounding a Nigantha (Jain) view, not a Buddhist one, and am trying to understand the shift from point "A" to "π"
do read this post and your response viewtopic.php?f=16&t=9229&start=1720#p199133

My other point you apparently miss, or with which you disagree, is that Plants are life-forms, too and in many respects sentient if not sapient! Therefore none of us are free from the guilt of killing to eat except for fruitatarianism and scavaging.


you really should read the posts.
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=9229&start=1700#p198876
Instead of ignoring posts because you deem them as false teachings, try reading and understanding them, and I would suggest you look up what a being is in Buddhism and have recently expressed it in a post but can not find it although here is the sutta I referenced, http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

But I will say again unless someone intentionally takes a life through body speech or mind they are not guilty of killing.

In my case, health put me down the nutritional path that I am on. :anjali:

great, there is nothing wrong with staying healthy, or with the intention to stay healthy, it is the reason to eat try looking at the reflection on using the requisites.
Wisely reflecting, i use alms food: not for fun, not for pleasure, not for fattening, not for beautification, only for the maintenance and nourishment of this body, for keeping it healthy, for helping with the Holy Life; thinking thus, “I will allay hunger without overeating, so that I may continue to live blamelessly and at ease.”

now the difference here between the fact that this is for mendicants and not lay people is that it is still applicable for lay people, as it is encouraging to eat only what is needed to stay healthy, and preform ones tasks. a neutral interpretive take could be
Wisely reflecting, i use food: not for fun, not for pleasure, not for fattening, not for beautification, only for the maintenance and nourishment of this body, for keeping it healthy, for helping with life's tasks; thinking thus, “I will allay hunger without overeating, so that I may continue to live blamelessly and at ease.”
(change underlined)
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=9229&start=1680#p198095 (another one of my mentioning of health)
and I do note the Buddha would consider more than a limited set of information seeing as he is all knowing.
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=9229&start=1720#p199456

One kills living beings by one's own hand
One urges another to do it
One grants permission to another to do it
One speaks in praise of killing

do note these are all direct intentional actions to kill through body speech or mind, not including an intent to sustain oneself through nutriment, as you have claimed.
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
With Metta
Upāsaka Cittasanto
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
User avatar
Cittasanto
 
Posts: 5751
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:31 pm
Location: Ellan Vannin

Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby Ron-The-Elder » Thu Aug 09, 2012 1:51 pm

Dear friend Cittasanto: Just as your video shows people smacking their foreheads in frustration, I find myself venting and gasping a great exhale.

Enough, already! Suggest we let others give it a try. Let us both let go of our attachments to "perception, form, and views" (Thanks for the link) ( I do read your posts, but simply find little to agree with). But, that is as it should be. We are each on a different part of the same path. As the saying goes "beauty is in the mind of the beholder", and nothing is more beautiful than The Dhamma.
-----The End----- " How about those Red Sox?" :tongue:
:anjali: Ron
What Makes an Elder? :
A head of gray hairs doesn't mean one's an elder. Advanced in years, one's called an old fool.
But one in whom there is truth, restraint, rectitude, gentleness,self-control, he's called an elder, his impurities disgorged, enlightened.
-Dhammpada, 19, translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.
User avatar
Ron-The-Elder
 
Posts: 1056
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 4:42 pm
Location: Concord, New Hampshire, U.S.A.

Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby Cittasanto » Thu Aug 09, 2012 7:56 pm

Ron-The-Elder wrote:Dear friend Cittasanto: Just as your video shows people smacking their foreheads in frustration, I find myself venting and gasping a great exhale.

Enough, already! Suggest we let others give it a try. Let us both let go of our attachments to "perception, form, and views" (Thanks for the link) ( I do read your posts, but simply find little to agree with). But, that is as it should be. We are each on a different part of the same path. As the saying goes "beauty is in the mind of the beholder", and nothing is more beautiful than The Dhamma.
-----The End----- " How about those Red Sox?" :tongue:
:anjali: Ron

its not frustration!
and if you read them you would of known it had been answered, and a great many other things had been covered, like not having it both ways.
my path is finding out what 'exactly' the Buddha taught and seeing if it works, not deciding what the Buddha taught.

but what the hell are the red sox?
Last edited by Cittasanto on Thu Aug 09, 2012 8:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
With Metta
Upāsaka Cittasanto
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
User avatar
Cittasanto
 
Posts: 5751
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:31 pm
Location: Ellan Vannin

Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby Ron-The-Elder » Thu Aug 09, 2012 8:26 pm

Cittasanto:
my path is finding out what 'exactly' the Buddha taught and seeing if it works, not deciding what the Buddha taught.

Agreed! This is a wonderful approach, but you and I can never know exactly what the Buddha taught, "exactly". We can only know what others said he taught.

What we can know is the preponderance of opinions and what has been reported and to select from that what is reasonable, non-delusional, and as Buddha explained to his son, Rahula, in The Ambalatthika-rahulovada Sutta : Reflecting as if in a mirror upon the potential outcomes of our intended actions: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

"What do you think, Rahula: What is a mirror for?"

"For reflection, sir."

"In the same way, Rahula, bodily actions, verbal actions, & mental actions are to be done with repeated reflection.

"Whenever you want to do a bodily action, you should reflect on it: 'This bodily action I want to do — would it lead to self-affliction, to the affliction of others, or to both? Would it be an unskillful bodily action, with painful consequences, painful results?' If, on reflection, you know that it would lead to self-affliction, to the affliction of others, or to both; it would be an unskillful bodily action with painful consequences, painful results, then any bodily action of that sort is absolutely unfit for you to do. But if on reflection you know that it would not cause affliction... it would be a skillful bodily action with pleasant consequences, pleasant results, then any bodily action of that sort is fit for you to do.

"While you are doing a bodily action, you should reflect on it: 'This bodily action I am doing — is it leading to self-affliction, to the affliction of others, or to both? Is it an unskillful bodily action, with painful consequences, painful results?' If, on reflection, you know that it is leading to self-affliction, to the affliction of others, or to both... you should give it up. But if on reflection you know that it is not... you may continue with it.


And, I put to you one last time that it is not in character for a Buddha to support slaughter, despite what you read in The Suttas. :anjali: Ron
What Makes an Elder? :
A head of gray hairs doesn't mean one's an elder. Advanced in years, one's called an old fool.
But one in whom there is truth, restraint, rectitude, gentleness,self-control, he's called an elder, his impurities disgorged, enlightened.
-Dhammpada, 19, translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.
User avatar
Ron-The-Elder
 
Posts: 1056
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 4:42 pm
Location: Concord, New Hampshire, U.S.A.

Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby Cittasanto » Thu Aug 09, 2012 8:57 pm

I had eddited the last post but will include it here also

Ron-The-Elder wrote:Cittasanto:
my path is finding out what 'exactly' the Buddha taught and seeing if it works, not deciding what the Buddha taught.

Agreed! This is a wonderful approach, but you and I can never know exactly what the Buddha taught, "exactly". We can only know what others said he taught.

What we can know is the preponderance of opinions and what has been reported and to select from that what is reasonable, non-delusional, and as Buddha explained to his son, Rahula, in The Ambalatthika-rahulovada Sutta : Reflecting as if in a mirror upon the potential outcomes of our intended actions: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

putting it to the test does quite a good job, and not taking passages out of context helps, fine tune things
plus there are markers for what is true teachings.
AN 8.53 A Discourse to Gotami (Samkhitta Sutta) (Excerpt) wrote:‘Those teachings that lead: to dis-passion (calm objectivity), not to passion (intense enthusiasm); to being unfettered (moving with things), not to being fettered (moved by things); to shedding (decrease of troubles), not to accumulating (increase of troubles); to being inwardly content, not to self importance (conceit); to contentment with things, not to discontent (longing for better things); to privacy from external concerns, not to involvement in external concerns; to the application of energy, not to wasting time; to being easily supported (needing little), not to being hard to please (wanting more’): You can definitely hold, ‘This is the teaching, this is the discipline, this is the teacher’s instruction.’


And, I put to you one last time that it is not in character for a Buddha to support slaughter, despite what you read in The Suttas. :anjali: Ron

I have pointed this out before but here it is again
if the Buddha is all knowing he will see there are other reasons to eat meat than what you are clumping it with - one of these reasons is why you eat meat - and as a fully altruistic person to ignore these reasons would show a fixedness in their views which would negate their effacement stance (see bottom of page 83) and the lengthy detailed post you admit to ignoring.

you can not have it both ways the Buddha is either all knowing and compassionate or a narrow minded tyrant who would leave people unable to sustain their body properly.
this not having it both ways also goes for going against ones understanding of the teachings.
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
With Metta
Upāsaka Cittasanto
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
User avatar
Cittasanto
 
Posts: 5751
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:31 pm
Location: Ellan Vannin

Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby Ron-The-Elder » Fri Aug 10, 2012 1:13 am

Cittasanto:,,,,you can not have it both ways the Buddha is either all knowing and compassionate or a narrow minded tyrant who would leave people unable to sustain their body properly.
this not having it both ways also goes for going against ones understanding of the teachings.


Since we (you) have now entered the realm of non-Harmonious Speech, I will cease to participate in any further conversation with you. You have no understanding of the capabilities of a Buddha any more than I do, or than anyone else living does. We have now entered the 32nd Plane of Existence, The Realm of Pure Speculation. Let's agree to end it respectfully here. :console: :coffee:
What Makes an Elder? :
A head of gray hairs doesn't mean one's an elder. Advanced in years, one's called an old fool.
But one in whom there is truth, restraint, rectitude, gentleness,self-control, he's called an elder, his impurities disgorged, enlightened.
-Dhammpada, 19, translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.
User avatar
Ron-The-Elder
 
Posts: 1056
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 4:42 pm
Location: Concord, New Hampshire, U.S.A.

Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby Cittasanto » Fri Aug 10, 2012 7:05 am

Ron-The-Elder wrote:
Cittasanto:,,,,you can not have it both ways the Buddha is either all knowing and compassionate or a narrow minded tyrant who would leave people unable to sustain their body properly.
this not having it both ways also goes for going against ones understanding of the teachings.


Since we (you) have now entered the realm of non-Harmonious Speech, I will cease to participate in any further conversation with you. You have no understanding of the capabilities of a Buddha any more than I do, or than anyone else living does. We have now entered the 32nd Plane of Existence, The Realm of Pure Speculation. Let's agree to end it respectfully here. :console: :coffee:

what is a mirror for? you don't like your own words do you viewtopic.php?f=16&t=9229&start=1700#p198868 but I am the one apparently expounding false teachings, even when I and others can walk the walk of what I believe to be the case.

I am definately not saying I am 100% correct on things. But my argument is based on an ability to put the texts into practice in different situations - which also take into account the ethical and philosophic underpinnings - so it ceases to be pure speculation when there is a demonstrable practicability.

I may not be able to prove an enlightened being is X, Y, or Z, however, I can show through a testable example and records of such behavior - which can either in part or full be applied to multiple situations - whether or not something is likely, no cop-out, and what is less likely to be the case can be seen through this application and be discarded due to that.

you may say non-harmonious, I disagree, it is harsh, but there is a reason, http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... gment.html
when you have several times ignored what has been said - either by myself or within the texts - due to a rational they are false teachings without evidence, and thus said dispraise on the teachings, and as a result of this dispraised the Tathagata I am to the extent we are Brothers in the Dhamma obliged!
some may not have the inclination to deal with straw-man or other fallacy arguments of non-practical opinion or popularity, but these are some of the least of my concerns when talking to others here.
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
With Metta
Upāsaka Cittasanto
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
User avatar
Cittasanto
 
Posts: 5751
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:31 pm
Location: Ellan Vannin

Re: Which diet are you?

Postby harveysmith27 » Fri Aug 10, 2012 9:00 am

According to your list my diet is Lacto-ovo vegetarianism that is a vegetarian diet that permits consumption of animal products such eggs, milk, and honey.
harveysmith27
 
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2012 8:47 am

Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby Ron-The-Elder » Fri Aug 10, 2012 9:34 am

Cittasanto wrote:what is a mirror for? you don't like your own words do you viewtopic.php?f=16&t=9229&start=1700#p198868 but I am the one apparently expounding false teachings, even when I and others can walk the walk of what I believe to be the case.

I am definately not saying I am 100% correct on things. But my argument is based on an ability to put the texts into practice in different situations - which also take into account the ethical and philosophic underpinnings - so it ceases to be pure speculation when there is a demonstrable practicability.

I may not be able to prove an enlightened being is X, Y, or Z, however, I can show through a testable example and records of such behavior - which can either in part or full be applied to multiple situations - whether or not something is likely, no cop-out, and what is less likely to be the case can be seen through this application and be discarded due to that.

you may say non-harmonious, I disagree, it is harsh, but there is a reason, http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... gment.html
when you have several times ignored what has been said - either by myself or within the texts - due to a rational they are false teachings without evidence, and thus said dispraise on the teachings, and as a result of this dispraised the Tathagata I am to the extent we are Brothers in the Dhamma obliged!
some may not have the inclination to deal with straw-man or other fallacy arguments of non-practical opinion or popularity, but these are some of the least of my concerns when talking to others here.


I have a guideline with regard to false teachings, which I will share with you just one more time, because you don't seem to be able to understand, and as a result, not only reject it, but it seems to frustrate and anger you to the point that you are willing to malign others, who do not agree with you. Here is the guideline one more time:

Buddha's have certain characteristics that are described by the preponderance of their followers. The prime characteristic is compliance with The Noble Eight Fold Path, which is the foundation for all precepts, the foremost being "Cause no harm." Therefore, any teaching, which any reasonable (wise) person upon reflection as if in a mirror would, or could cause harm, would not be taught by a Buddha. Therefore, any such teaching no matter where it is reported is to be "suspect". A person who believes everything without personally verifying and validating ( as you say that you do) is therefore potentially acting under the influence of Mara's many guises to defile and distort The Dhamma.

My suggestion to you is to review and study :reading: The Ten Perfections (Parami's), wherein you will find what ( I believe)all Buddha's must practice to reach attainment:

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/stud ... tions.html

Nowhere in these will you find that a Buddha, or any being on the path to perfection supports slaughter to support their culinary needs. :anjali: Ron

Cittasanto: you may say non-harmonious, I disagree, it is harsh, but there is a reason...,
This "debate" has gotten to the point of being non-harmonious, because I can see the formation of "egos" arising to the defense of specious views, which result is always non-harmonious. For example you imply that you are capable of "judging others" elevating your(delusional) self above others, by citing this in your last comment:

Regard him as one who
points out
treasure,
the wise one who
seeing your faults
rebukes you.

Stay with this sort of sage.

For the one who stays
with a sage of this sort,
things get better,
not worse.
— Dhp 76


To judge others calling yourself "sage", while (in your sage judgement) the other is in your opinion a "fool" and to offer them uninvited criticism in your judgement is invasive, and definitely non-harmonious, and therefore, I will no longer participate in what has become a diatribe between us in this thread.

So, let's agree to end with a summary ( final )comment from you, which explains your conclusions regarding this topic, (please) without the ad-hominum attacks to which you are now resorting. This means that you will get the very last word between you and I re. this topic, which should thereby satisfy your frustrations. Please stick to the topic, and cease attacking others out of your personal frustrations, which results in causing harm., which is what I meant by "non-harmonious speech" Be at peace Dear Friend, Cittasanto.:console:

As always, I look forward to reading and learning from your posts both now and in the future. :anjali:
What Makes an Elder? :
A head of gray hairs doesn't mean one's an elder. Advanced in years, one's called an old fool.
But one in whom there is truth, restraint, rectitude, gentleness,self-control, he's called an elder, his impurities disgorged, enlightened.
-Dhammpada, 19, translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.
User avatar
Ron-The-Elder
 
Posts: 1056
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 4:42 pm
Location: Concord, New Hampshire, U.S.A.

Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby Cittasanto » Fri Aug 10, 2012 9:00 pm

Ron
Please read what I said again and try to respond to what has been said instead of distorting and changing the subject!
I understood your guidelines originally and they do not make me angry. However, I have noted to you that this does not take into account other factors which I have shown you, the Buddha took into consideration when formulating the rules and by which you rationalize eating flesh.
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
With Metta
Upāsaka Cittasanto
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
User avatar
Cittasanto
 
Posts: 5751
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:31 pm
Location: Ellan Vannin

Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby Ron-The-Elder » Sat Aug 11, 2012 12:58 am

Cittasanto wrote:Ron
Please read what I said again and try to respond to what has been said instead of distorting and changing the subject!
I understood your guidelines originally and they do not make me angry. However, I have noted to you that this does not take into account other factors which I have shown you, the Buddha took into consideration when formulating the rules and by which you rationalize eating flesh.


Sorry! No time for pointless pursuits. I have kazoo lessons tonight! :coffee:
What Makes an Elder? :
A head of gray hairs doesn't mean one's an elder. Advanced in years, one's called an old fool.
But one in whom there is truth, restraint, rectitude, gentleness,self-control, he's called an elder, his impurities disgorged, enlightened.
-Dhammpada, 19, translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.
User avatar
Ron-The-Elder
 
Posts: 1056
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 4:42 pm
Location: Concord, New Hampshire, U.S.A.

Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby Cittasanto » Sat Aug 11, 2012 5:16 am

Ron-The-Elder wrote:
Cittasanto wrote:Ron
Please read what I said again and try to respond to what has been said instead of distorting and changing the subject!
I understood your guidelines originally and they do not make me angry. However, I have noted to you that this does not take into account other factors which I have shown you, the Buddha took into consideration when formulating the rules and by which you rationalize eating flesh.


Sorry! No time for pointless pursuits. I have kazoo lessons tonight! :coffee:

OK,
as you have repetedly refused to answer what actually has been said and used fallacious arguments several times, I shall agree with an earlier post on page 87

ancientbuddhism wrote:I cannot engage in your specious, straw-man arguments.


Hypocritical arguments are not worth the Bandwidth!
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
With Metta
Upāsaka Cittasanto
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
User avatar
Cittasanto
 
Posts: 5751
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:31 pm
Location: Ellan Vannin

Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby Ron-The-Elder » Sat Aug 11, 2012 9:23 am

Cittasanto wrote:
Hypocritical arguments are not worth the Bandwidth!


Great! So, follow your own advice. :tongue:

Please, stop with the adhominums resulting from your frustrations asBuddha advized Angulimalla:

"While walking, contemplative,
you say, 'I have stopped.'
But when I have stopped
you say I haven't.
I ask you the meaning of this:
How have you stopped?
How haven't I?"

[The Buddha:]
"I have stopped, Angulimala,
once & for all,
having cast off violence
toward all living beings.
You, though,
are unrestrained toward beings.
That's how I've stopped
and you haven't."

[Angulimala:] :reading:
"At long last a greatly revered great seer
for my sake
has come to the great forest.
Having heard your verse
in line with the Dhamma,
I will go about
having abandoned evil."

So saying, the bandit
hurled his sword & weapons
over a cliff
into a chasm,
a pit.
:hug:

source: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

Ironic ending of our conversation, and yet another believable quote of a Buddha advising : "Cause no harm or violence to living beings."....supporting the notion that a Buddha would never support slaughter as a means to sate any of one's appetites. :hug:
What Makes an Elder? :
A head of gray hairs doesn't mean one's an elder. Advanced in years, one's called an old fool.
But one in whom there is truth, restraint, rectitude, gentleness,self-control, he's called an elder, his impurities disgorged, enlightened.
-Dhammpada, 19, translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.
User avatar
Ron-The-Elder
 
Posts: 1056
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 4:42 pm
Location: Concord, New Hampshire, U.S.A.

Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby Ron-The-Elder » Sat Aug 11, 2012 9:30 am

Main article: Vegetarianism in Buddhism
A basic precept in Buddhism is that of non-harm. Actions which result in the taking of life, directly or indirectly, contradict this basic Buddhist precept.
Many Buddhists in many countries, including monks, are not vegetarians. However in recent years some people's attitudes are changing. In January 2007, the 17th Karmapa, Ogyen Trinley Dorje (The identification of the 17th Karmapa is disputed, see Karmapa controversy), instructed all his monasteries and centres to become vegetarian.
There has been some contention about interpretations of the sūtras. One interpretation is that eating of meat is not explicitly prohibited in the suttas and Vinaya of the Pāli canon which encourage monks to accept whatever food they are given. However, monks are forbidden from accepting animal flesh if they know, believe or suspect that the animal in question was killed especially for them, i.e., if the visits of begging monks have become an occasion for the slaughter of animals.
In the Laṅkāvatāra & Aṅgulimāla sutra the Buddha explicitly prohibits the eating of meat, fish and any animal products which are the result of harming and killing of any sentient being. The Buddha states the only time it is acceptable for a monastic to accept and eat the flesh of sentient beings is for medicinal purposes only if the animal died in accordance with the Dharma, meaning the animal died of natural causes.


source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animals_in_Buddhism
What Makes an Elder? :
A head of gray hairs doesn't mean one's an elder. Advanced in years, one's called an old fool.
But one in whom there is truth, restraint, rectitude, gentleness,self-control, he's called an elder, his impurities disgorged, enlightened.
-Dhammpada, 19, translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.
User avatar
Ron-The-Elder
 
Posts: 1056
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 4:42 pm
Location: Concord, New Hampshire, U.S.A.

Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby Cittasanto » Sat Aug 11, 2012 12:53 pm

Ron
you have absolutely no evidence for you accusations, although your claims I am not at peace are annoying, they are untrue.
I am not the one who can not walk my talk or need to twist and manipulate what others say. you have repetitively refused to directly address points and have opted to use straw-man, red-herring & ad hominums not me.

The Dhamma is fully practicable here and now, for the wise to see for themselves!

Good Bye :focus:

EDIT - regarding the ad Hominum accusation, The conclusion that the hard line possition is impractical and health needs would be considered by the Buddha I have suggestied, was already made before his admittance of diet so isn't a fallacy argument, he is simply a first hand example.
however it can be seen as abusive, although it was not intended to be that way rather applying his own methology as seen here to refute his own argument which is in a manner a tu quoquo, tit for tat reaction, and for that I apologise to the group.
Last edited by Cittasanto on Sat Aug 11, 2012 4:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
With Metta
Upāsaka Cittasanto
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
User avatar
Cittasanto
 
Posts: 5751
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:31 pm
Location: Ellan Vannin

Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby Ron-The-Elder » Sun Aug 12, 2012 3:45 am

What do Olympians eat?

Found this during this mornings readings:

http://www.delish.com/food-fun/olympic- ... et#slide-1
What Makes an Elder? :
A head of gray hairs doesn't mean one's an elder. Advanced in years, one's called an old fool.
But one in whom there is truth, restraint, rectitude, gentleness,self-control, he's called an elder, his impurities disgorged, enlightened.
-Dhammpada, 19, translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.
User avatar
Ron-The-Elder
 
Posts: 1056
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 4:42 pm
Location: Concord, New Hampshire, U.S.A.

Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby David N. Snyder » Sun Aug 12, 2012 4:16 am

Endurance sports work well with a vegetarian or especially a vegan diet. The fruits, veggies, legumes, and grains are the perfect fuel for the long distances.

Ironically, the strength athletes of Carl Lewis and Mike Tyson are both vegans. Although, both became vegans after their sports career was over.
User avatar
David N. Snyder
Site Admin
 
Posts: 8107
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:15 am
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada

Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby Cittasanto » Sun Aug 12, 2012 8:34 am

David N. Snyder wrote:Endurance sports work well with a vegetarian or especially a vegan diet. The fruits, veggies, legumes, and grains are the perfect fuel for the long distances.

Ironically, the strength athletes of Carl Lewis and Mike Tyson are both vegans. Although, both became vegans after their sports career was over.


This site seams to sugest that even strength sports do not need to have very high protein intake, www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/0309.htm
The common folklore in strength sports is that a high-protein diet is required. The consensus of most sports scientists is that, although the protein needs of strength athletes are slightly higher than the general population, high levels of protein intake are not necessary. In fact, in the quest for protein, many strength athletes end up eating unhealthy high-fat diets. The key issue for bulking up is adequate energy intake alongside a training programme. A high-energy intake from nutritious food will also be high in protein, carbohydrate, vitamins and minerals.

so as earlier links show vegan body builders... it would be a personal consideration.
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
With Metta
Upāsaka Cittasanto
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
User avatar
Cittasanto
 
Posts: 5751
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:31 pm
Location: Ellan Vannin

Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby Ron-The-Elder » Mon Aug 13, 2012 6:16 pm

From this morning's readings:

Fifteen Reasons you may want to reconsider eating meat!

http://evolvingwellness.com/posts/663/1 ... ting-meat/

Fifteen reasons to go vegetarian or vegan!

http://evolvingwellness.com/posts/740/1 ... he-planet/
What Makes an Elder? :
A head of gray hairs doesn't mean one's an elder. Advanced in years, one's called an old fool.
But one in whom there is truth, restraint, rectitude, gentleness,self-control, he's called an elder, his impurities disgorged, enlightened.
-Dhammpada, 19, translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.
User avatar
Ron-The-Elder
 
Posts: 1056
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 4:42 pm
Location: Concord, New Hampshire, U.S.A.

PreviousNext

Return to Open Dhamma

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Anagarika, Yahoo [Bot] and 6 guests