Assessing ones progress

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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Digity
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Assessing ones progress

Post by Digity »

How does one go about assessing ones progress along the path? Does this require a teacher or do you think it can be done by oneself. I sometimes think I might be overestimating or underestimating certain "developments". I sometimes feel like I'm possibly deluding myself about my position along the path. Maybe it's best not to think about this. What are your thoughts?
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DNS
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Re: Assessing ones progress

Post by DNS »

Progress on the path / progress with meditation are pretty much related:

1. If you are generally happier than before you started meditating
2. If you notice an increase in positive and a decrease in negative qualities within yourself
3. If you are more relaxed and open
4. If you are able to be more objective about yourself, these are good indicators that your meditation is going the way it should

http://www.dhammawiki.com/index.php?tit ... meditation" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Goofaholix
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Re: Assessing ones progress

Post by Goofaholix »

Digity wrote:How does one go about assessing ones progress along the path? Does this require a teacher or do you think it can be done by oneself. I sometimes think I might be overestimating or underestimating certain "developments". I sometimes feel like I'm possibly deluding myself about my position along the path. Maybe it's best not to think about this. What are your thoughts?
When the need to assess progress falls away then that's a good sign of progress.

The need to assess progress, to have some certainty you're getting enough baang for your buck comes out of craving and attachment.

Yes, you do need to monitor the results of your practise so that you can recogise what is working and what is not and make adjustments as you go, but this is part of practise not an assessment of progress.
Pronouns (no self / not self)
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.”
― Ajahn Chah
Digity
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Re: Assessing ones progress

Post by Digity »

David N. Snyder wrote:Progress on the path / progress with meditation are pretty much related:

1. If you are generally happier than before you started meditating
2. If you notice an increase in positive and a decrease in negative qualities within yourself
3. If you are more relaxed and open
4. If you are able to be more objective about yourself, these are good indicators that your meditation is going the way it should

http://www.dhammawiki.com/index.php?tit ... meditation" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Good link. I have experienced more joy, happiness and openness through my practice. However, I have glaring weak spots too and sometimes I feel depressed about them. I often feel guilty that I'm not pushing myself enough in my practice...that I'm taking it too easy. Not sure what to make of that...whether it's good or not. I guess I'm trying to get a better understand of what exactly is the "right" amount of effort for someone who works 9-5, etc. What should their daily/weekly practice look like?
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Ben
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Re: Assessing ones progress

Post by Ben »

Digity wrote:I guess I'm trying to get a better understand of what exactly is the "right" amount of effort for someone who works 9-5, etc. What should their daily/weekly practice look like?
It depends, I think.
Ledi Sayadaw, in his writings for lay people, recommended three hours a day for meditation in daily life while my teacher recommends two hours a day. Other teachers will have different recommendations.
Don't become too obsessed with weak spots. Concentrate on bedding down your practice as a sustainable part of your life, getting it established day to day. If you can maintain your practice everyday for a year then it'll most likely be a permanent part of your life. And in getting your practice established, it will benefit and support all path factors. If after a number of years you still feel that certain areas are lacking, then I suggest you have a look at the Bodhipakkiya dhammas and consider how to strengthen each of the 37 requisites. Ledi Sayadaw's manual of the 37 requisities of enlightenment is an excellent guide. But right now, concentrate on maintaining sila, developing samadhi and panna, drop by drop, day to day. This is how progress is made.
kind regards

Ben
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Nyana
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Re: Assessing ones progress

Post by Nyana »

:goodpost:
plwk
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Re: Assessing ones progress

Post by plwk »

Your online forum visits starts decreasing....
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Monkey Mind
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Re: Assessing ones progress

Post by Monkey Mind »

plwk wrote:Your online forum visits starts decreasing....
Or become wiser.
"As I am, so are others;
as others are, so am I."
Having thus identified self and others,
harm no one nor have them harmed.

Sutta Nipāta 3.710
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Viscid
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Re: Assessing ones progress

Post by Viscid »

David N. Snyder wrote:Progress on the path / progress with meditation are pretty much related:

1. If you are generally happier than before you started meditating
2. If you notice an increase in positive and a decrease in negative qualities within yourself
3. If you are more relaxed and open
4. If you are able to be more objective about yourself, these are good indicators that your meditation is going the way it should

http://www.dhammawiki.com/index.php?tit ... meditation" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I really like this list of indicators of useful meditation progress. That's a fairly well-written article.
Rather than trying to see themselves as they actually are, some meditators have an image of how they ‘should’ be and then use suppression and contrivance to make themselves fit into that image...

Other meditators develop a form of psychological rigidity, becoming puritanical and unbending in their attitude to even the most minor rules and dogmatic about interpretations of Dhamma and meditation techniques
Hmmm.. this description seems.. familiar.. :spy:
"What holds attention determines action." - William James
rowyourboat
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Re: Assessing ones progress

Post by rowyourboat »

Hi Diggity

If you 1) craving 2) aversion and 3) delusion- starts reducing you are on the right track

If your peace of mind increases (ie a higher form of happiness, really) then it is good.

If you become a more virtuous person.

If you get on better with your spouse/partner and your parents

If you become less lazy, less self critical, more accepting of changes

Less obsessed with material possessions and value the 'immaterial' more

:anjali:

with metta

Matheesha
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha
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bodom
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Re: Assessing ones progress

Post by bodom »

The Progress of Insight
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... gress.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

:anjali:
Liberation is the inevitable fruit of the path and is bound to blossom forth when there is steady and persistent practice. The only requirements for reaching the final goal are two: to start and to continue. If these requirements are met there is no doubt the goal will be attained. This is the Dhamma, the undeviating law.

- BB
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ground
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Re: Assessing ones progress

Post by ground »

Digity wrote:How does one go about assessing ones progress along the path?
The extent to which ethical conduct has approached and is approaching perfection and does not relapse. Actually "ethical conduct" in my statement may be replaced by "renunciation" because from my perspective the meaning is the same.


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SarathW
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Re: Assessing ones progress

Post by SarathW »

plwk wrote:Your online forum visits starts decreasing....
However participating in Dhamma discussions and teaching in online forums come under ten wholesome actions.
:thinking:
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
chownah
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Re: Assessing ones progress

Post by chownah »

Here is a devise which can be used to do the assessing:

AN 4.28
PTS: A ii 27
Ariya-vamsa Sutta: The Discourse on the Traditions of the Noble Ones
translated from the Pali by
Thanissaro Bhikkhu
© 1996
These four traditions of the Noble Ones — original, long-standing, traditional, ancient, unadulterated, unadulterated from the beginning — are not open to suspicion, will never be open to suspicion, and are unfaulted by knowledgeable contemplatives and brahmans. Which four?

There is the case where a monk is content with any old robe cloth at all. He speaks in praise of being content with any old robe cloth at all. He does not, for the sake of robe cloth, do anything unseemly or inappropriate. Not getting cloth, he is not agitated. Getting cloth, he uses it not tied to it, uninfatuated, guiltless, seeing the drawbacks (of attachment to it), and discerning the escape from them. He does not, on account of his contentment with any old robe cloth at all, exalt himself or disparage others. In this he is skillful, energetic, alert, and mindful. This, monks, is said to be a monk standing firm in the ancient, original traditions of the Noble Ones.

Furthermore, the monk is content with any old almsfood at all. He speaks in praise of being content with any old almsfood at all. He does not, for the sake of almsfood, do anything unseemly or inappropriate. Not getting almsfood, he is not agitated. Getting almsfood, he uses it not tied to it, uninfatuated, guiltless, seeing the drawbacks (of attachment to it), and discerning the escape from them. He does not, on account of his contentment with any old almsfood at all, exalt himself or disparage others. In this he is skillful, energetic, alert, and mindful. This, monks, is said to be a monk standing firm in the ancient, original traditions of the Noble Ones.

Furthermore, the monk is content with any old lodging at all. He speaks in praise of being content with any old lodging at all. He does not, for the sake of lodging, do anything unseemly or inappropriate. Not getting lodging, he is not agitated. Getting lodging, he uses it not tied to it, uninfatuated, guiltless, seeing the drawbacks (of attachment to it), and discerning the escape from them. He does not, on account of his contentment with any old lodging at all, exalt himself or disparage others. In this he is skillful, energetic, alert, and mindful. This, monks, is said to be a monk standing firm in the ancient, original traditions of the Noble Ones.

Furthermore, the monk finds pleasure and delight in developing (skillful mental qualities), finds pleasure and delight in abandoning (unskillful mental qualities). He does not, on account of his pleasure and delight in developing and abandoning, exalt himself or disparage others. In this he is skillful, energetic, alert, and mindful. This, monks, is said to be a monk standing firm in the ancient, original traditions of the Noble Ones.

These are the four traditions of the Noble Ones — original, long-standing, traditional, ancient, unadulterated, unadulterated from the beginning — which are not open to suspicion, will never be open to suspicion, and are unfaulted by knowledgeable contemplatives and brahmans.

And furthermore, a monk endowed with these four traditions of the Noble Ones, if he lives in the east, conquers displeasure and is not conquered by displeasure. If he lives in the west... the north... the south, he conquers displeasure and is not conquered by displeasure. Why is that? Because the wise one endures both pleasure and displeasure.

This is what the Blessed One said. Having said this, he said further:

Displeasure does not conquer the enlightened one.
Displeasure does not suppress him.
He conquers displeasure
because he endures it.

Having cast away all deeds:
who could obstruct him?
Like an ornament of finest gold:
Who is fit to find fault with him?
Even the Devas praise him,
even by Brahma is he praised.
---------------------------------------------------------
Have you made progress in conquering displeasure?
chownah
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pilgrim
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Re: Assessing ones progress

Post by pilgrim »

There is another recent thread with the same question but worded differently as "How to measure spiritual development?". Perhaps they can be merged.

The Sankhitta Sutta (S 48.13) explains that “the difference in individuals” is due to one’s level in cultivating the five spiritual faculties
(panca indriya)—faith, effort, mindfulness, concentration, wisdom:

“By accomplishment and perfection in the five faculties one is an arahant. If the faculties are weaker, one is a non-returner; if they are still weaker, one is a once-returner, or a stream-winner, or a Dhamma-devotee (dhammanusarin), or a faith-devotee (saddhanusarin) Thus, monks, through the difference of faculties, there is difference of result; and the difference of results makes for the difference of individuals."
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