How one could be considered an arahant?

[whynotme]

Hi,

We could find many in suttas as a monk was said to be an arahant, but in patimokkha, the Buddha didn't allow a monk to say someone is an arahant to lay people. So where did those things come from? Even now a day, some one could be considered an arahant, who could confirm those kinds of things?

Regards

[robertk]

You either know yourself- viz the flickering eyelids , or can write to Daniel Ingram for professioanl evaluation.

[cooran]

Hello whynotme, all,

You may find this of interest:

How to tell if you are an arahant:
SN 35:152 Atthinukhopariyaayo Sutta: Is There a Criterion? - translated from the Pali by Maurice O'Connell Walshe
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .wlsh.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Other Suttas and Articles on Arahants:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/index-su ... ml#arahant" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

with metta
Chris

[tiltbillings]

You either know yourself- viz the flickering eyelids , or can write to Daniel Ingram for professioanl evaluation.

I am assuming that by your snarky response that you are assuming (or know) that this is one of Ingram's followers?

[DNS]

Every once in a while at a temple or Dhamma center a n00b will attend and ask, "I think I am enlightened, can you certify or tell me for sure that I am enlightened?

If I am asked, I'll tell them "you're not enlightened."
n00b: "how do you know?"
Me: "I can tell."
n00b: "how can you tell, are you enlightened?"
Me: "No, but I can see that you are not."
n00b: "how can you tell?"
Me: "Because you asked, an Arahant wouldn't have to ask."

[Ben]

David, you must be the real party pooper at your temple!

[DNS]

David, you must be the real party pooper at your temple!

Sometimes, yes I can be.

[whynotme]

Hello whynotme, all,

You may find this of interest:

How to tell if you are an arahant:
SN 35:152 Atthinukhopariyaayo Sutta: Is There a Criterion? - translated from the Pali by Maurice O'Connell Walshe
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .wlsh.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Other Suttas and Articles on Arahants:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/index-su ... ml#arahant" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

with metta
Chris

Thanks,

I know how is an arahant, I know an arahant will know he is the arathant, but my point is I want to know, how do people know his arahant-ship? I mean, in patimokha, the Buddha didn't allow a monk to tell to lay people that he or others attained Jhanas or other noble states. So, for example, if Ahjan Chah was considered an arahant, who could spread this thing? A monk? A monk is prohibited from such a thing. Or a lay person? I don't mean to be rude but I don't believe low rank people.

So, who could say to others that someone is an arahant? While in suttas there were many arahants, how could a normal person believe someone is an arahant from a trusted source? Or now a day, arahant is just nearly a myth because noone could say anything about it, the one knows won't talk, the one that talks doesn't know. I mean there are maybe some arahants but is it true that we can't know them arahants by a reliable source?

Regards.

[whynotme]

You either know yourself- viz the flickering eyelids , or can write to Daniel Ingram for professioanl evaluation.

I am assuming that by your snarky response that you are assuming (or know) that this is one of Ingram's followers?

Or he just tried to make a joke

[nobody12345]

Every once in a while at a temple or Dhamma center a n00b will attend and ask, "I think I am enlightened, can you certify or tell me for sure that I am enlightened?

If I am asked, I'll tell them "you're not enlightened."
n00b: "how do you know?"
Me: "I can tell."
n00b: "how can you tell, are you enlightened?"
Me: "No, but I can see that you are not."
n00b: "how can you tell?"
Me: "Because you asked, an Arahant wouldn't have to ask."

This.

[nobody12345]

Hello whynotme, all,

You may find this of interest:

How to tell if you are an arahant:
SN 35:152 Atthinukhopariyaayo Sutta: Is There a Criterion? - translated from the Pali by Maurice O'Connell Walshe
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .wlsh.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Other Suttas and Articles on Arahants:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/index-su ... ml#arahant" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

with metta
Chris

Thanks,

I know how is an arahant, I know an arahant will know he is the arathant, but my point is I want to know, how do people know his arahant-ship? I mean, in patimokha, the Buddha didn't allow a monk to tell to lay people that he or others attained Jhanas or other noble states. So, for example, if Ahjan Chah was considered an arahant, who could spread this thing? A monk? A monk is prohibited from such a thing. Or a lay person? I don't mean to be rude but I don't believe low rank people.

So, who could say to others that someone is an arahant? While in suttas there were many arahants, how could a normal person believe someone is an arahant from a trusted source? Or now a day, arahant is just nearly a myth because noone could say anything about it, the one knows won't talk, the one that talks doesn't know. I mean there are maybe some arahants but is it true that we can't know them arahants by a reliable source?

Regards.

The only way that you'd know for sure that a person in question is an Arahant is that you are an Arahant.
You cannot read/assess/look into the mind of your superior.
Do not waste time looking for an Arahant teacher that can guide you.
You already have a supremely wise teacher, the highest Arahant among all the Arahants.
You already have his teachings and instructions in written format (the Nikayas).
Remember that the other Arahants do not possess all of the Awakened One's 10 special powers.
Other Arahants cannot touch the Awakened one, not even close.
Through out many Aeons of Samsara, many seekers'd die for obtaining such a marvelous map/activation code as the Awakened One's DHAMMA.
So consider yourself extremely lucky this time.
Dhamma is the genuine map/activation code that can carry the one to the other shore.
And unless you became an Ariya (minimum, Sotapana) you will not sure about others spiritual faculties so do yourself a huge favor such as...
Study the Pali Canon, practice Dhamma, and meditate fiercely.
You will never know just how long the dispersion of Dhamma would last.
This could be your last chance in many Aeons to come to practice the genuine Dhamma that actually works.
Trillions of beings caught in delusions and preached dhamma over many Aeons.
However, there's only one DHAMMA that actually works.
Appreciate your auspicious fortune and practice while you still have breath/life.
Metta.

[Pondera]

Thanks,

I know how is an arahant, I know an arahant will know he is the arathant, but my point is I want to know, how do people know his arahant-ship? I mean, in patimokha, the Buddha didn't allow a monk to tell to lay people that he or others attained Jhanas or other noble states. So, for example, if Ahjan Chah was considered an arahant, who could spread this thing? A monk? A monk is prohibited from such a thing. Or a lay person? I don't mean to be rude but I don't believe low rank people.

So, who could say to others that someone is an arahant? While in suttas there were many arahants, how could a normal person believe someone is an arahant from a trusted source? Or now a day, arahant is just nearly a myth because noone could say anything about it, the one knows won't talk, the one that talks doesn't know. I mean there are maybe some arahants but is it true that we can't know them arahants by a reliable source?

Regards.

There's plenty of instances in Buddhism where the lay people "caught wind" of a particular visit that the Buddha was making to the lay people's town. And many words were passed among the lay people about his "perfection" -if you want to call it that. My point is, within reason, if a certain person happens to meet whatever criterion there are for being spiritually enlightened -you can be sure that much talk about such a person will surface where ever that person happens to wander. It's a bit like Jesus Christ; where he would go ahead a heal a blind person, or something, and then tell them to never speak of it to anyone; wherein immediately after the healed person would tell every last person he knew that "such and such person cured my blindness". Hence, the great crowds and the growing scorn and the eventual downfall.

I suppose that, essentially, it's not crucially important to know, by hearsay, if a particular person is an "Arahant". There's a few examples of those who reached "Arahantship" -knowing that "on this very day, at this very time I will become an Arahant" and have later gone on to be very imperfect examples of what it should mean to be a "holy person".

But, your question seems to be "what about nowadays?". "Are there any Arahants? And if so, how would I know?" I can't answer that question. I don't know. I've never met a person like that in my life. But I suppose if I did, I would be able to tell by the "contact-high" I got from being near this person. It's a consequence of being very well concentrated that all of those around become affected by your state of intensity. The person who concentrates on the skandhas manages to understand their differences, and through concentrating on them, he grasps how each one exists on top of the other, supporting it or merely acting as an attachment to it. Form, feeling, perception, impulses, and consciousness -when they are concentrated on deeply disassociate in the mind of the knower. A person becomes ultra real to themselves as their composite form is weighed up for what it is. Anyway, my best response would be that the next time you run into a person whose presence alone causes you to enter into a state of deep awareness, you can at least rest assured that this person has some kind of knowledge pertaining to the underlying reality of human existence. But what are the chances of that? I don't know.