impermanance - a buddhist perspective

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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amtown
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impermanance - a buddhist perspective

Post by amtown »

” A wave on the ocean was bouncing happily along, enduring storms, the wind, rain, other crashing waves, and several lulls. He noticed ahead, that waves were crashing onto the cliffs of the shore. As he approached, he became terrified, and yelled out that the other waves were crashing onto the shore, suffering a horrible death. The wave in back of him, then shouted, “Don’t you realize that you’re part of the ocean, and after crashing onto the shore, you’ll return to the ocean?”

Buddhist philosophy on impermanence has elevated just about every fear I have ever had from relationships to views of death , from possessions to ego. How does that philosophy effect your life? I am interested in everyone’s personal accounts if they would like to share.
http://northtexasbdg.org" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Adem
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amtown
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Re: impermanance - a buddhist perspective

Post by amtown »

Excuse me, alleviated and not elevated.. Spell check has a mind of it’s own.
Adem
daverupa
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Re: impermanance - a buddhist perspective

Post by daverupa »

amtown wrote:Buddhist philosophy on impermanence has elevated just about every fear I have ever had...
It seems, given the idea of crashing waves returning to the ocean, that you misunderstand anicca as some manner of annihilation which can only be resolved by reference to The Ocean as permanent and abiding, to which we all return after a brief moment of individuation as a wave:
amtown wrote:“Don’t you realize that you’re part of the ocean, and after crashing onto the shore, you’ll return to the ocean?”
That's the problem, however - the ocean is anicca just as the waves are anicca, and clinging to any of it will sustain the continuation of dukkha. The end of clinging requires the end of craving, and the end of craving requires the Noble Eightfold Path. Far from increasing ones fear, this Way ought to be seen as a beacon of hope, the goal of which is attainable in this very life.

:heart:
  • "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.

- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
PeterB
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Re: impermanance - a buddhist perspective

Post by PeterB »

amtown wrote:” A wave on the ocean was bouncing happily along, enduring storms, the wind, rain, other crashing waves, and several lulls. He noticed ahead, that waves were crashing onto the cliffs of the shore. As he approached, he became terrified, and yelled out that the other waves were crashing onto the shore, suffering a horrible death. The wave in back of him, then shouted, “Don’t you realize that you’re part of the ocean, and after crashing onto the shore, you’ll return to the ocean?”

Buddhist philosophy on impermanence has elevated just about every fear I have ever had from relationships to views of death , from possessions to ego. How does that philosophy effect your life? I am interested in everyone’s personal accounts if they would like to share.
http://northtexasbdg.org" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
You seem to be describing in a negative form an experience which might be connected to Vedanta..it has nothing to do with Buddhism.
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ground
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Re: impermanance - a buddhist perspective

Post by ground »

From my perspective (which I do not claim to be any kind of buddhism's perspective) conceiving "impermanence" depends on conceiving "permanence" and that both are mere ideas, fabrications. I.e. one who grasps "impermanence" necessarily grasps "permanence". Since "permanence" is the pole where attachment prefers to focus on the tenet of "impermanence" has been taught as an antidot to shift the focus and thus to neutralize the extreme of "permanence" and attain the middle. The cessation of both, "impermanence" and "permanence", is the crucial attainment

Therefore, as nana puts it here,"It's said that the contemplation of impermanence (aniccānupassanā) results in the signless deliverance."
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.ph ... 52#p117252" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Kind regards
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cooran
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Re: impermanance - a buddhist perspective

Post by cooran »

Hello all,

The Three Basic Facts of Existence I. Impermanence (Anicca)

Impermanence (Anicca)
[……………..]
‘’History has proved again and again and will continue to prove that nothing in this world is lasting. All things when clung to fail. Nations and civilizations rise, flourish, and die away as waves upon the ocean, yielding place to new, and thus the scrolls of time record the passing pageant, the baseless vision, and the fading flow that is human history.’’
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... .html#fact" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
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retrofuturist
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Re: impermanance - a buddhist perspective

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings Amtown,

Waves, oceans and such things may be used to good effect as similes, but my reading of the Buddha's teachings suggests the deeper meaning of impermanence is not in relation to the interpermanence of things in the "external world", but rather, about the impermanence of experienced phenomena in the "experienced world". The Buddha skilfully nuanced the Pali equivalent of the word "world" (i.e. loka) as per the following example.

SN 35.82: Loka Sutta
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Then a certain monk went to the Blessed One and, on arrival, having bowed down to him, sat to one side. As he was sitting there, he said to the Blessed One: "'The world, the world' it is said. In what respect does the word 'world' apply?

"Insofar as it disintegrates, monk, it is called the 'world.' Now what disintegrates? The eye disintegrates. Forms disintegrate. Consciousness at the eye disintegrates. Contact at the eye disintegrates. And whatever there is that arises in dependence on contact at the eye — experienced as pleasure, pain or neither-pleasure-nor-pain — that too disintegrates.

"The ear disintegrates. Sounds disintegrate...

"The nose disintegrates. Aromas disintegrate...

"The tongue disintegrates. Tastes disintegrate...

"The body disintegrates. Tactile sensations disintegrate...

"The intellect disintegrates. Ideas disintegrate. Consciousness at the intellect consciousness disintegrates. Contact at the intellect disintegrates. And whatever there is that arises in dependence on contact at the intellect — experienced as pleasure, pain or neither-pleasure-nor-pain — that too disintegrates.

"Insofar as it disintegrates, it is called the 'world.'"
Metta,
Retro. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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amtown
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Re: impermanance - a buddhist perspective

Post by amtown »

The post was a quote from Daisaku Ikeda hence "Buddhist perspective ." I never said it was Buddhist teachings. I am rather new at the teachings of Buddha so my take my be a bit elementary to most of you so thanks for all of your view points!
Adem
PeterB
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Re: impermanance - a buddhist perspective

Post by PeterB »

amtown wrote:The post was a quote from Daisaku Ikeda hence "Buddhist perspective ." I never said it was Buddhist teachings. I am rather new at the teachings of Buddha so my take my be a bit elementary to most of you so thanks for all of your view points!

:anjali: Hope to see you again. :smile:
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amtown
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Re: impermanance - a buddhist perspective

Post by amtown »

daverupa wrote:
amtown wrote:Buddhist philosophy on impermanence has elevated just about every fear I have ever had...
It seems, given the idea of crashing waves returning to the ocean, that you misunderstand anicca as some manner of annihilation which can only be resolved by reference to The Ocean as permanent and abiding, to which we all return after a brief moment of individuation as a wave:
amtown wrote:“Don’t you realize that you’re part of the ocean, and after crashing onto the shore, you’ll return to the ocean?”
That's the problem, however - the ocean is anicca just as the waves are anicca, and clinging to any of it will sustain the continuation of dukkha. The end of clinging requires the end of craving, and the end of craving requires the Noble Eightfold Path. Far from increasing ones fear, this Way ought to be seen as a beacon of hope, the goal of which is attainable in this very life.

:heart:
I had to read your response a few times before I got it lol. So it's more about suffering caused by attachment? The quote simply put the waves ( in my mind) as sentient beings giving them life, so naturally I interpreted the crashing waves as energy returning to the energy that is all around us and the fear behind that transformation, or the fear caused by attachment to life. I should also mention my view on death and reincarnation is different from Buddhist and Christian philosophy so that could have something to do with my interpretation. Thank you for your incite on this.
Adem
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amtown
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Re: impermanance - a buddhist perspective

Post by amtown »

PeterB wrote:
amtown wrote:The post was a quote from Daisaku Ikeda hence "Buddhist perspective ." I never said it was Buddhist teachings. I am rather new at the teachings of Buddha so my take my be a bit elementary to most of you so thanks for all of your view points!

:anjali: Hope to see you again. :smile:
Thank you peter, I should have credited the quote to be more clear.
Adem
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Re: impermanance - a buddhist perspective

Post by MattJ »

amtown,

I think you will find a variety of perspectives that fall under the banner of Buddhist teaching. There is Theravada, which is mostly what this forum is about. Within Theravada, there is a huge variety. There is also Mahayana with its numerous forms: citta matra, Pure land, Zen, Hua Yen, Tendai, Madhyamaka, tathatagatgarbha, etc.
http://zenanddao.blogspot.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: impermanance - a buddhist perspective

Post by DarwidHalim »

amtown wrote: Buddhist philosophy on impermanence has elevated just about every fear I have ever had from relationships to views of death , from possessions to ego. How does that philosophy effect your life? I am interested in everyone’s personal accounts if they would like to share.
http://northtexasbdg.org" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
When you first started Buddhism, you will study as if suffering is real, happiness is real. However, when you go deeper and deeper, you will realize that actually there is no suffering, there is no happiness.

Because you realize this reality, it frees you from fear, greed, ignorance, etc.

However, be careful, don't fall into nihilism.

You need to learn abidharma or prajna paramitha sutra to realize this. Study both if you can. They give you different way to help you realize reality.
I am not here nor there.
I am not right nor wrong.
I do not exist neither non-exist.
I am not I nor non-I.
I am not in samsara nor nirvana.
To All Buddhas, I bow down for the teaching of emptiness. Thank You!
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