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Any stream-enterer here? - Page 4 - Dhamma Wheel

Any stream-enterer here?

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
PeterB
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Re: Any stream-enterer here?

Postby PeterB » Sat Oct 01, 2011 3:02 pm

That I believe is called " reductio ad absurdum". And as such needs no reply. :strawman:

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appicchato
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Re: Any stream-enterer here?

Postby appicchato » Sat Oct 01, 2011 3:37 pm

Why am I commenting here is a good question (at least for myself)...but in regards to the statement: 'I...became a Buddha myself', my understanding is that one of the definitions of a Buddha is one who has re-discovered the Dhamma after it has been 'lost' (or ended)...and since we're (so we're told) approximately midway in this Dhamma age, that would seem pretty much to negate most anything one who makes such a statement has to say...
:popcorn:

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Alex123
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Re: Any stream-enterer here?

Postby Alex123 » Sat Oct 01, 2011 6:47 pm

Last edited by Alex123 on Sat Oct 01, 2011 7:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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Pondera
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Re: Any stream-enterer here?

Postby Pondera » Sat Oct 01, 2011 7:17 pm


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Pondera
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Re: Any stream-enterer here?

Postby Pondera » Sat Oct 01, 2011 8:59 pm


chownah
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Re: Any stream-enterer here?

Postby chownah » Sun Oct 02, 2011 2:03 am


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retrofuturist
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Re: Any stream-enterer here?

Postby retrofuturist » Sun Oct 02, 2011 2:08 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Pondera
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Re: Any stream-enterer here?

Postby Pondera » Sun Oct 02, 2011 5:56 pm


Kenshou
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Re: Any stream-enterer here?

Postby Kenshou » Sun Oct 02, 2011 6:15 pm

Says who, might I ask?

I think you may have a knack for overcomplicating things.

chownah
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Re: Any stream-enterer here?

Postby chownah » Mon Oct 03, 2011 4:52 am


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tiltbillings
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Re: Any stream-enterer here?

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Oct 03, 2011 5:07 am


meindzai
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Re: Any stream-enterer here?

Postby meindzai » Wed Oct 05, 2011 4:32 pm


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daverupa
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Re: Any stream-enterer here?

Postby daverupa » Wed Oct 05, 2011 6:35 pm

Does anyone else find it strange that there seems to be a certain... popularity? ... in claiming that one isn't a sotapanna even after n-years of practice? Doesn't this seem to be a sign that the practices are, I don't know... not as efficacious as they ought to be?

...or rather, that the practices undertaken for that length of time are... deficient, somehow?

I'm not one to buy the idea that a Dhamma-declining age is even in force, to say nothing of having it mean that meditation is less efficacious by fiat. Nor am I inclined to think that "modernity" is at fault since that term is uselessly vague. What else might we say about this apparent lack of success on the part of the laity? Purely a matter of the laity taking on the monastic prohibition against saying such things?

...but Citta the Householder had no such problem proclaiming his attainment to the Jains of his neighborhood...

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kirk5a
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Re: Any stream-enterer here?

Postby kirk5a » Wed Oct 05, 2011 6:45 pm

"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

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mikenz66
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Re: Any stream-enterer here?

Postby mikenz66 » Wed Oct 05, 2011 6:54 pm

Interesting question, Dave,

If you listen to talks by Burmese-trained monks in the Mahasi/U Pandita lineage, such as
U Vivekananda posting.php?mode=reply&f=16&t=9879 it is clear that (in their view) they are teaching from experience of the paths, and that stream entry is quite possible for lay people willing to put in sufficient effort.

Similarly for Joseph Goldstein , Steve Armstrong (who spent a couple of years as a monk in Burma), and other lay teachers.

I mention the above in particular only because they are teachers I'm familiar with, so they are the ones for which I've registered that message.

:anjali:
Mike

PeterB
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Re: Any stream-enterer here?

Postby PeterB » Wed Oct 05, 2011 7:26 pm

When Luang Por Chah said ( frequently ) " do not be a Boddhisattva, do not be an arahant , do not be anything " he wasnt making an inverse boast. He wasnt suggesting that practice has no outcome.
He wasnt implying that we should proclaim our failure. Or be coy about our attainment.
He was saying that attainment in Dhamma is in the realisation of anicca..of shunyata.
And was therefore not compatible with ontological expressions of status or attainment.

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Zom
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Re: Any stream-enterer here?

Postby Zom » Wed Oct 05, 2011 7:26 pm

By the way, interesting to note: everywhere in canon people gained stream-entry through listening to the Dhamma, and nowhere - through meditation :reading:
Why is that? Because stream-entry means gaining "right views" but not "right knowledge" (which is the 9th path factor actually).

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acinteyyo
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Re: Any stream-enterer here?

Postby acinteyyo » Wed Oct 05, 2011 7:43 pm

Thag 1.20. Ajita - I do not fear death; nor do I long for life. I’ll lay down this body, aware and mindful.

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Pondera
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Re: Any stream-enterer here?

Postby Pondera » Thu Oct 06, 2011 9:17 pm


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Aloka
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Re: Any stream-enterer here?

Postby Aloka » Thu Oct 06, 2011 10:07 pm



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