Kenshou wrote:Says who, might I ask?
I think you may have a knack for overcomplicating things.
That's why my name is Pondera. I have a knack for overcomplicating things. I'm a ponderer. But, if your question is; "who says that Arahants don't remain in Nirvana their entire lives?", I think my response would be, most affectionately, "Somewhere in the suttas, the point is made that an Arahant doesn't remain in the state of total Unbinding for their entire life on earth."
chownah wrote:There are many questions I could ask about your post but thought it would be best to just look at this part. It seems to me that the Buddha taught that an arahant has dispelled ignorance and thus also clinging etc. entirely and so that it would never arise again....I guess you don't agree with this? I don't have a reference in mind but think that I could find one and probably more.....can anyone out there come up with a reference indicating that becoming arahata means no re-arising of the bad stuff?...ot shows that I have missed the point?.......
I do agree that in an Arahant; greed, ignorance, and lust cease to exist. I do not believe that their entire lives are spent in one unending state of Final Gnosis. Simply recall that upon the death of the Buddha, he entered in and out of all four jhanas one after the other up to final gnosis, then all the way back down, then up to the fourth jhana again and he passed away.
"3.15 The Buddha then entered the first jhana, the second jhana, the third jhana, the fourth jhana. Then he entered the sphere of Infinite Space, the sphere of Infinite Conciousness, the sphere of Nothingness, the sphere of Neither-perception-nor-nonperception. Then, he attained the cessation of feeling and perception.
Leaving the attainment of cessation of feeling and perception, he entered the sphere of Neither-perception-nor-nonperception, the sphere of Nothingness, the sphere of Infinite Conciousness, the sphere of Infinite Space. Then he entered the fourth jhana, the third jhana, the second jhana, the first jhana.
Leaving the first jhana, he entered the second jhana, the third jhana, the fourth jhana.Leaving the fourth jhana, the Blessed One immediately passed away." DN 16.
It's seems apparent that even the Buddha lived and existed in separate states of mind and body from time to time. But the total destruction of greed, lust, and ignorance is something I believe stays healthy and alive in the heart and mind of a fully awakened being.
I am not an Arahant or a Preyetka Buddha, or anything like that because I simply can't attest to being a passionless person. I am guilty of all manner of hatred, greed, and delusion. Hence, if I were to admit to having attained final gnosis then my assertion that one dose of final gnosis does not an arahant make, would be, ultimately, based on my reasoning and experience. But that depends on whether or not I am willing, or capable, or claiming such a thing. And I am not willing to make such a claim, or capability therein either or else wise, neither (that is to say) - of such sorts in this kind.