Kenshou wrote:This bit from the Vimuttimagga describes it well enough: To the yogin who attends to the incoming breath with mind that is cleansed of the nine lesser defilements the image arises with a pleasant feeling similar to that which is produced in the action of spinning cotton or silk cotton. Also, it is likened to the pleasant feeling produced by a breeze. Thus in breathing in and out, air touches the nose or the lip and causes the setting-up of air perception mindfulness. This does not depend on colour or form. This is called the image. If the yogin develops the image [sign] and increases it at the nose-tip, between the eyebrows, on the forehead or establishes it in several places, he feels as if his head were filled with air.
I'm fairly confident this is not simply the arising of normal aspects of life that I've been previously unaware of, since quite a bit of that sort of expansive body-awareness increasing type stuff occurs far before this point and levels off. Only after dwelling in that calm state of awareness for awhile does this "nimitta" show up, and this breezy soft feeling which beings at and grows around the original breath-point is accompanied by a particular sort of pressure. It's subtle yet distinct from any normal experience.
However, all the literature on samatha I have only mentions these sort of experiences shortly, but tends to continue to describe the progression of the practice in terms of more visually-oriented nimittas. So, I'm asking for the experience or advice of anyone who has similar experiences and how to take advantage of them, since I'm finding that at this point, despite how well everything seems to go up until then, every time it seems to fall apart. It's as if at the threshold of a jhana, every time I screw up the transition point.
Is it best to continue to watch the breath at this point, or rather, is this the proper time to let go allow the focus to fall naturally where it will? Whatever you do, I seem to botch this transition every time so far. Enough times that I've given up and made a thread about it.
And if I'm clearly chasing in a direction I shouldn't, of course let me know.
Buddha wrote:"And what is the development of concentration that, when developed & pursued, leads to a pleasant abiding in the here & now? There is the case where a monk — quite withdrawn from sensuality, withdrawn from unskillful qualities — enters & remains in the first jhana: rapture & pleasure born from withdrawal, accompanied by directed thought & evaluation. With the stilling of directed thought & evaluation, he enters & remains in the second jhana: rapture & pleasure born of composure, unification of awareness free from directed thought & evaluation — internal assurance [meaning inner tranquility]. With the fading of rapture he remains in equanimity, mindful & alert [mindful and clearly aware], and physically sensitive to pleasure. He enters & remains in the third jhana, of which the Noble Ones declare, 'Equanimous & mindful, he has a pleasurable abiding.' With the abandoning of pleasure & pain — as with the earlier disappearance of elation & distress — he enters & remains in the fourth jhana: purity of equanimity & mindfulness, neither pleasure nor pain. This is the development of concentration that, when developed & pursued, leads to a pleasant abiding in the here & now.
Kenshou wrote:IanAnd- Thank you once again for another thorough explanation. So you are saying that actual "absorption" does not occur till the second jhana, but is induced by the increasing unification of the mind through vitakka & vicara during the first jhana? This seems to make sense in regard to the suttas, and I understand your reply in that thread more completely in light of this.
Then, though the second jhana has a more obvious transition, the border between the 1st jhana and what comes before it is rather undefined, isn't it. But all that really matters is the cultivating of concentration, eh?
Kenshou wrote:So, it seems clear that I simply need to make what I have stronger and learn to maintain it, and not lose my hold on the breath when this occurs, I feel that that may have been what I've been doing. I think I'll be a little more anal about sila too, just in case. Always room for improvement...
Kenshou wrote:IanAnd... So you are saying that actual "absorption" does not occur till the second jhana, but is induced by the increasing unification of the mind through vitakka & vicara during the first jhana? This seems to make sense in regard to the suttas, and I understand your reply in that thread more completely in light of this.
Kenshou wrote:Then, though the second jhana has a more obvious transition, the border between the 1st jhana and what comes before it is rather undefined, isn't it. But all that really matters is the cultivating of concentration, eh?
IanAnd wrote:At this point I have to lodge my disagreement with what thereductor has said regarding the "mind becom[ing] unified around the vitakka and vicara." The mind does not become unified "around vitakka and vicara"; only at the second jhana does the mind unify on the breath. Otherwise, directed attention and evaluation (sustained attention) would not be necessary in the first jhana. You'd be able to just focus on the breath for one or two cycles and you'd be instantly in absorption from the get go. While this CAN occur, it only occurs on the occasion when the meditator has gained considerable experience entering absorption and knows how to get there rather quickly without a lot of preliminary action. Otherwise, he must take the time to first induce the absorption using applied attention (vitakka) and sustained attention (vicara) on the breath such that sometime thereafter the mind becomes unified on the breath.
IanAnd wrote:If you are following the instruction given in the suttas (as in the example quotation I gave in my first post), you will be inducing absorption in the first jhana....
If you read my post again very carefully, you will see that what I do say is that "unification of the mind" does not occur until the second jhana.
thereductor wrote:When I speak of unification of mind I don't think that I'm using the term the same way that you are.
thereductor wrote:In the first Jhana I mean that the mind is directed in whole toward a single object, the breath, via the process of vitakka and vicara. It is the process of vitakka and vicara which are keeping the mind directed toward the breath, and without them the mind would disband.
thereductor as amended by Ian wrote:This absorption (rather than "unification of mind") is very fragile in the first Jhana, and there is no feed back loop as you pointed out. It is by taking note of the signs (which I equate with pleasure) and the mental satisfaction that comes with becoming secluded (from external preoccupations) that the feed back loop can become established.
The unification of mind in the second Jhana is a much different experience than that in the first.
thereductor wrote:Or so is my experience.
Kenshou wrote:IanAnd wrote:If you are following the instruction given in the suttas (as in the example quotation I gave in my first post), you will be inducing absorption in the first jhana....
If you read my post again very carefully, you will see that what I do say is that "unification of the mind" does not occur until the second jhana.
Aha, gotcha. Absorption =/= unification of mind. Your explanation was clear but I read a little too hastily.
IanAnd wrote:On another note, I find the clarifications of your experience a helpful and informative element to this thread which will help others to be able to better discern this process. The descriptions of your experience have been insightful, clarifying, and relevant to the subject matter.
IanAnd wrote:No. A small subtle difference was intended. Absorption per se does not outright equal "unification of mind," since one is in the first stage of absorption in the first jhana when the mind has yet to become unified. This "unification of the mind" takes place in the second absorption and...
As far as I understand anapanasati instructions in Vimuttimagga are basically the same with Thanissaro bhikkhu / Ajan Lee Dhammadharo teachings.
Kenshou wrote:I've had experiences of these nimittas which seem in accordance with what I've learned of them. Rarely, I've had the orb-like visual signs as described by Ajahn Brahm,
This bit from the Vimuttimagga describes it well enough: To the yogin who attends to the incoming breath with mind that is cleansed of the nine lesser defilements the image arises with a pleasant feeling similar to that which is produced in the action of spinning cotton or silk cotton. Also, it is likened to the pleasant feeling produced by a breeze. Thus in breathing in and out, air touches the nose or the lip and causes the setting-up of air perception mindfulness. This does not depend on colour or form. This is called the image. If the yogin develops the image [sign] and increases it at the nose-tip, between the eyebrows, on the forehead or establishes it in several places, he feels as if his head were filled with air.
I'm fairly confident this is not simply the arising of normal aspects of life that I've been previously unaware of, since quite a bit of that sort of expansive body-awareness increasing type stuff occurs far before this point and levels off. Only after dwelling in that calm state of awareness for awhile does this "nimitta" show up, and this breezy soft feeling which beings at and grows around the original breath-point is accompanied by a particular sort of pressure. It's subtle yet distinct from any normal experience.
Is it best to continue to watch the breath at this point, or rather, is this the proper time to let go allow the focus to fall naturally where it will?
One basically moves this energy (your breezy soft feeling and pressure) around the whole body, and even outside, until it all is "purified". When you start moving it you will notice that there are places that you can move it to easily and those that seem closed to it. The closed ones are so called "blocks", they need to be "purged", meaning one has to practice moving the element there, too. Full purification is reached when not only your head is filled with "air" but the whole body and then the whole world around.
But if you want to use the element air you need to let go of the breath and use the element as your new object.
Another key bit of advice I picked up somewhere was to focus on the "pleasant sensation". Keep your focus on the breath until a wave of rapturous pleasantness spontaneously arises, then let go of the breath to focus on the feeling of that sensation without adding verbalization.
Kenshou wrote:I don't know a lick about Tibetan practices or chakras or any of that.
Yep, this is pretty much how it's been going. As I quote from the Vimuttimagga (which I've found to be the most reliable text on anapanasati for me so far), "...he feels as if his head were filled with air. Through increasing in this way his whole body is charged with bliss. This is called perfection." Pretty much the same thing you say and that I experience, though I think it seems that the airy sensations tend to spread when conditions are right, and doesn't require much direct effort of moving it.
I think this is something I was getting confused about at first. The air element itself isn't the object, the feeling of the air-contact is. (don't know if those are the same thing)
The "airy" feelings that develop are side-effects of stillness and calm developed through concentration, the way I see it.
Freawaru wrote:I think this is something I was getting confused about at first. The air element itself isn't the object, the feeling of the air-contact is. (don't know if those are the same thing)
Frankly, neither do I.
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