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Re: Is color inherent in rupa?
Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 7:17 am
by mikenz66
Hi Hanzze,
The actual quote seems to have a rather different meaning:
http://www.aimwell.org/Books/Ledi/Path/ ... roups.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Ledi Sayadaw wrote: Know, Perceive, Conceive, and View
Those who cannot differentiate the four elements in the head and who do not know that solidity, etc., in the head are elements, know the head as such only; they note it as the head only; they only think that it is the head; and they see it as the head only.
To know that it is the head is a delusion of mind (citta).
To perceive that it is the head is a delusion of perception (saññā).
To conceive that it is the head is a delusion of conceit (māna).
To view it as the head is a delusion of view (ditthi).
Mike
Re: Is color inherent in rupa?
Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 7:20 am
by Hanzze
Why do you think so? It's about "Know, Perceive, Conceive, and View" and modifyed that there is no additional "Know, Perceive, Conceive, and View" to hinder the message.
Re: Is color inherent in rupa?
Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 7:30 am
by mikenz66
I'm sorry, but I think that your changes give a completely opposite message from what Ledi Sayadaw intended, which is that to take concepts such as "head" as real is delusion. I'll leave others to read Ledi Sayadaw and decide for themselves.
In any case, this seems to be rather off the topic Abhidhamma view on colour.
Mike
Re: Is color inherent in rupa?
Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 7:44 am
by mikenz66
Here is some material from
A Comprehensive Manual of Abhidhamma
by Anuruddha, Ed. Bhikkhu Bodhi
http://books.google.co.nz/books?id=hxop ... ur&f=false" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Page 234
Chapter VI Compendium of Matter.
2 In Brief: Great Essentials and Derived Matter.
Matter is twofold, namely: the four great essentials, and material phenomenta derived from the four great essentials. These two constitute eleven categories.
3 In Detail: Concretely Produced matter.
How?
(1) Essential material phenomena: the earth element, the water element, the fire element, and the air element.
(2) Sensitive material phenomena: eye, ear, nose, tongue, and body.
(3) Objective material phenomena: visible form, etc ...
Bhikkhu Bodhi's commentary on:
(2) Sensitive material phenomena.
- What is conventionally spoken of in the Abhidhamma as the composite eye, a compound of various material phenomena. Among these is eye-sensitivity, the sensitive substance in the retina that registers light and colour and serves as a physical base for eye-door consciousness...
Mike
Re: Is color inherent in rupa?
Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 8:01 am
by Hanzze
mikenz66 wrote:I'm sorry, but I think that your changes give a completely opposite message from what Ledi Sayadaw intended, which is that to take concepts such as "head" as real is delusion. I'll leave others to read Ledi Sayadaw and decide for themselves.
In any case, this seems to be rather off the topic Abhidhamma view on colour.
Mike
You are right in regard of the head ("Know, Perceive, Conceive, and View")
And it is offtopic in regard of color but maybe useful in regard of understanding the head ("Know, Perceive, Conceive, and View")