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Are mind and matter the same? - Dhamma Wheel

Are mind and matter the same?

Discussion of Abhidhamma and related Commentaries

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SarathW
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Are mind and matter the same?

Postby SarathW » Thu Feb 13, 2014 12:10 pm

Abhidhamma says that the smallest matter (Kalapa) consist of 17 thought moment.
Is the matter refer here , same as the matter such as a rock?
Does this mean that mind and matter the same (ie. Matter is a result of mind)?
:thinking:
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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mikenz66
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Re: Are mind and matter the same?

Postby mikenz66 » Thu Feb 13, 2014 9:15 pm

Reminder: This is the Abhidhamma forum, and replies should conform to the guidelines of this forum: viewtopic.php?f=18&t=374

Sarath, could you give a quotation from somewhere, such as the Abhidhammatthasangaha, so that we can understand what you are referring to?

:anjali:
Mike

culaavuso
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Re: Are mind and matter the same?

Postby culaavuso » Thu Feb 13, 2014 10:03 pm



SarathW
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Re: Are mind and matter the same?

Postby SarathW » Fri Feb 14, 2014 1:12 am

Thanks C.
I need some clarification for the following.

Anicca, i. e., the fleeting nature of both mind and
matter. Changeableness is a characteristic of everything
that is conditioned. All conditioned things are
constantly changing, not remaining static for two
consecutive moments. Mind, in fact, changes even
faster than matter. Normally matter endures only for
seventeen thought-moments. Commentators state
that, during the time occupied by a flash of lightning,
billions of thought-moments may arise.

Page 462:
http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/abhidhamma.pdf
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

culaavuso
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Re: Are mind and matter the same?

Postby culaavuso » Fri Feb 14, 2014 1:28 am



santa100
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Re: Are mind and matter the same?

Postby santa100 » Fri Feb 14, 2014 4:26 am


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mikenz66
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Re: Are mind and matter the same?

Postby mikenz66 » Fri Feb 14, 2014 4:36 am

Also, translating rupa too literally as "matter" may well give the wrong impression of what the texts are actually addressing. It seems to me that the Abhidhamma is about the analysis of experience (in this case the experience of form) and if you read these passages in that way they may seem less mysterious.

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Mike

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Re: Are mind and matter the same?

Postby dhamma follower » Fri Feb 14, 2014 1:33 pm


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mikenz66
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Re: Are mind and matter the same?

Postby mikenz66 » Fri Feb 14, 2014 9:06 pm

Thanks DF,

Penetrating the details of the Abhidhamma is not easy, and not for everyone. Can I remind readers that the purpose of this thread (and the Abhidhamma Forum in general) is to share our understanding of Abhidhamma, not to argue about it's usefulness or authenticity. The proper place for such argumentative discussions is: .

:anjali:
Mike

SarathW
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Re: Are mind and matter the same?

Postby SarathW » Tue Apr 01, 2014 3:43 am

Some interesting info:
The foregoing observations should show that the mental as well as the material
dhammas are not actually separable one from another. In the case of the mental
dhammas, the term used is satsattha (conjoined); in the case of the material
dhammas, the term used is avinibbhoga (inseparable). This raises the question why
the dhammas are presented as a plurality. The answer is that, although they are not
actually separable, yet they are distinguishable (vibhagavanta) one from another
.96
It is this distinguishability that serves as the foundation of the dhamma theory.

Page 16

http://www.stefan.gr/buddhism/books/abh ... theory.pdf
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

SarathW
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Re: Are mind and matter the same?

Postby SarathW » Thu May 22, 2014 3:53 am

Some thing interesting:

However, for some reason or other, perhaps due to the influence of
some Indian schools of philosophy with a slant towards materialism, some
Buddhist sects indulged in academic subtleties which seem to obsess the
mind with the four elements with concepts about them, instead of the
simpler reflection on elements characteristic of the suttas. Originally the
purpose was to erase the four elements from the mind.

The original purpose was to make the four elements, the amorphous
primaries which masquerade as form in the minds of beings for
incalculable aeons, to fade away from the mind. But what happened later
was to revel in atomistic analyses, which more or less followed the way of
thinking peculiar to materialism. It ended up in hair-splitting analyses
even literally, painting for instance the earth element all the more vividly
in the mind.
We have to assess this academic trend against the original
purpose, unbiased by the traditional predilection for it. It is no
exaggeration to say that all this tended to obscure the path to Nibbana in
the course of time.

P606:
http://www.seeingthroughthenet.net/file ... led_VI.pdf
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

Awakened_Angel
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Re: Are mind and matter the same?

Postby Awakened_Angel » Wed Jul 02, 2014 8:09 am

from my understanding, is ahbidhamma quantum mechanics?

jagodage
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Re: Are mind and matter the same?

Postby jagodage » Fri Sep 19, 2014 10:31 am

Are mind and matter the same?

No.They are two different entities.

First let me brief how Abidhamma today came to existence.
Lord Buddha preached Abidhamma to Matru Deva in Tusita celestial world.This part of Dhamma was most Advanced Buddism.This was preach to an erudite audience.This means Abidhamma can study by educated Human also.There was an agreement by Venerable Ananda with Lord Buddhaat on the onset that every sermon has to be repeated to Venerable Ananda.Therefore Lord Buddha had repeated the Abidhamma sermon to Ven Ananda.During 1st Dharmma congregation Ven Ananda has recited Abidhamma.Subsequently after several generation,it was recorded.

This was in 07 part books.(Abidhamma by Venarable Rarukana Chandawimala)

The four basic parts of Abidhamma were
1 Chitta
2 Chaitasika
3 Rupa
4 Nibbana

The Pali words has been used as it is difficult to find a word to with carry same meaning.Chitta mean mind.Chitta consist of constituents called Chaithasika.There are 52 chithasika. Rupa means things that changes with heat(cold or hot).Nibbana is something Asankatha (i e does not effect Annicha,Dukka and Annatha).

Now mind is called Chitta or Nama.Nama means an object is taken by one of six Endriya(eye,ear,nose,tounge,skin or Mind) and a consciousness was formed.Matter is called Rupa.They are 28 types.

open to comments

With Metta

:anjali:


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