Why only 12 Maggangas? Why not 16?

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SarathW
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Why only 12 Maggangas? Why not 16?

Postby SarathW » Fri Feb 21, 2014 12:01 am

We all are familiar with Noble Eight Fold Path. When you add another four opposits it become 12 Maggangas.
I wonder why it is not 16. ie 8X2=16
================
Number eight is Sammā-samādhi. Right concentration
is identified with Ekaggatā, one-pointedness of mind. These
eight are the usual ones we meet in many places.

Now come the four which are not Sammā but Micchā.

Among the four the first one is Micchā-di ṭṭhi, wrong view. It is
identified with Diṭṭhi Cetasika among the Akusala Cetasikas.

The second of the four is Micchā-saṅkappa. Micchāsaṅkappa
is the opposite of Sammā-saṅkappa — so thoughts
of sensual desire, thoughts of killing, thoughts of cruelty. They
are all identified with the Cetasika Vitakka.

The third among the four is Micchā-vāyāma, wrong
effort. That is Viriya Cetasika accompanying the Akusala
Cittas.

The fourth among the four is Micchā-samādhi. It is
identified with Ekaggatā Cetasika, wrong Ekaggatā. When your
mind is concentrated on some wrong activity or some wrong
act, it is called Micchā-samādhi. It may be exemplified by
someone fishing. When a person is fishing, his concentration is
on killing the fish. He has some kind of Samādhi, but it is
Micchā-samādhi, a wrong kind of concentration.
These
These are the twelve Maggaṅgas or twelve factors of
path. Here path means that which leads to attainment of
Nibbāna as well as the path that leads to other rebirths or
existences.

Page 30:
http://buddhispano.net/sites/default/fi ... es-III.pdf
:reading:

randall
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Re: Why only 12 Maggangas? Why not 16?

Postby randall » Fri Feb 21, 2014 12:54 am

hi Sarah

From the Comprehensive Manual of Abhidhamma,(chapter VII "Compendium of Categories", "Path Factors", pg272) it says:

...There are no distinct path factors of wrong speech, wrong action, and wrong livelihood, since these are simply unwholesome modes of conduct motivated by defilements. There is no factor of wrong mindfulness, since mindfulness is an exclusively beautiful cetasika absent in the unwholesome cittas.
"Bhikkhus, possessing five factors, speech is well spoken, not badly spoken; it is blameless and beyond reproach by the wise. What five? It is spoken at the proper time; what is said is true; it is spoken gently; what is said is beneficial; it is spoken with a mind of loving-kindness. Possessing these five factors, speech is well spoken, not badly spoken; it is blameless and beyond reproach by the wise."
AN 5 198

culaavuso
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Re: Why only 12 Maggangas? Why not 16?

Postby culaavuso » Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:59 am

It seems like there is an opposite for every path factor, according to AN 10.103

AN 10.103: Micchatta Sutta wrote:In a person of wrong view, wrong resolve comes into being. In a person of wrong resolve, wrong speech. In a person of wrong speech, wrong action. In a person of wrong action, wrong livelihood. In a person of wrong livelihood, wrong effort. In a person of wrong effort, wrong mindfulness. In a person of wrong mindfulness, wrong concentration.


Or similarly SN 45.1
SN 45.1: Avijja Sutta wrote:Monks, ignorance is the leader in the attainment of unskillful qualities, followed by lack of conscience & lack of concern. In an unknowledgeable person, immersed in ignorance, wrong view arises. In one of wrong view, wrong resolve arises. In one of wrong resolve, wrong speech... In one of wrong speech, wrong action... In one of wrong action, wrong livelihood... In one of wrong livelihood, wrong effort... In one of wrong effort, wrong mindfulness... In one of wrong mindfulness, wrong concentration arises.


See also MN 117
MN 117: Maha-cattarisaka Sutta wrote:And what is wrong view? 'There is nothing given, nothing offered, nothing sacrificed. There is no fruit or result of good or bad actions. There is no this world, no next world, no mother, no father, no spontaneously reborn beings; no contemplatives or brahmans who, faring rightly & practicing rightly, proclaim this world & the next after having directly known & realized it for themselves.' This is wrong view.
...
And what is wrong resolve? Being resolved on sensuality, on ill will, on harmfulness. This is wrong resolve.
...
And what is wrong speech? Lying, divisive tale-bearing, abusive speech, & idle chatter. This is wrong speech.
...
And what is wrong action? Killing, taking what is not given, illicit sex. This is wrong action.
...
And what is wrong livelihood? Scheming, persuading, hinting, belittling, & pursuing gain with gain. This is wrong livelihood.

randall
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Re: Why only 12 Maggangas? Why not 16?

Postby randall » Sat Feb 22, 2014 1:51 am

culaavuso wrote:It seems like there is an opposite for every path factor


hello culaavuso

In reference the OP's question why only 12 path factors? why not 16? which was referring to "CMA, chapter VI, Compendium of Categories, path factors" the author uses the term path factors to categorize a group of 12 factors that can then be broken down into 9 cetasikas so they can can be referenced later on as a "Path Condition".

The intro to chapter VI "Compendium of Categories" starts with:
The seventy-two kinds of entities have (already) been described with their characteristics. Now I will speak of their categories in the ways that are applicable.


The guide states:
I will speak of their categories: Having described the four ultimate realities with their seventy-two constituents, the author will now show how they are grouped into various categories employed for the classification in the Abhidhamma Pitika


So we see the author is going to classify some groups and the one were interested in is based on the path factors and cetasikas. When we get to the subsection "Path Factors" the author writes:
Twelve path factors: (1) right view, (2) right intention, (3) right speech, (4) right action, (5) right livelihood, (6) right effort, (7) right mindfulness, (8) right concentration, (9) wrong view, (10) wrong intention, (11) wrong effort, (12) wrong concentration.


and the guide states:
Here the word "path" is used in the sense of that which leads to a particular destination, that is, towards the blissful states of existence, the woeful states, and Nibbana. Of the twelve factors, the first eight lead to the blissful states and Nibbana, the last four lead to the woeful states.
These twelve path factors can be reduced to nine cetasikas. Right view is the cetasika of wisdom. Right intention, right effort, right mindfulness and right concentration are, respectively, the cetasikas of initial application, energy, mindfulness, and one pointedness found in wholesome and indeterminate cittas with roots. Right speech, right action, and right livelihood are the three abstinences (virati) found collectively in the supramundane cittas and seperately on particular occasions in mundane wholesome cittas.
Of the four wrong path factors, wrong view is the cetasika of views, and is the only exclusively unwholesome cetasika among the path factors. The other three factors are, in order, the cetasikas of initial application, energy, and one-pointedness in the unwholesome cittas. There are no distinct path factors of wrong speech, wrong action, and wrong livelihood, since these are simply unwholesome modes of conduct motivated by defilements. There is no factor of wrong mindfulness, since mindfulness is an exclusively beautiful cetasika absent in the unwholesome cittas.


In my very limited understanding (excuse me for my ignorance) I see them saying:


PATH FACTOR | CETASIKA

1) Right View = wisdom
2) Right Intention = Initial Application(wholesome citta)
3) Right Speech = three abstinences
4) Right Action = three abstinences
5) Right Livelihood = three abstinences
6) Right Effort = Energy(wholesome citta)
7) Right Mindfulness = Mindfulness
8) Right Concentration = One-Pointedness(wholesome citta)
9) Wrong View = Views
10) Wrong intention = Initial Application(unwholesome citta)
11) Wrong Effort = Energy(unwholesome citta)
12) Wrong Concentration = one-pointedness(unwholesome citta)

being described as a group of 9 cetasikas/12 path factors (to be referenced later in the CMA under Path Condition), and the four factors that are excluded are excluded because they're "not distinct" as they can be broken down even further and fall into one of the unwholesome path factors cetasikas included as part of the group above.

Nina Van Gorkom writes:
Not all eight factors of the wrong path are cetasikas which are path-condition. The four factors of wrong speech, wrong action, wrong livelihood and wrong mindfulness are not among the akusala cetasikas which are conditioning factors of path-condition. Wrong speech, wrong action, wrong livelihood are not specific cetasikas; they comprise different unwholesome actions motivated by akusala cetana, unwholesome volition, which accompanies akusala citta. Wrong mindfulness does not function as path-condition; the cetasika mindfulness, sati can only accompany sobhana citta, it connot be akusala. Wrong mindfulness is a description of lack of mindfulness, lack of attention to akusala, of lobha.

The Conditionality of Life, pg109
https://ia700608.us.archive.org/20/items/TheConditionalityOfLife/cond.pdf



Again, in my very limited understanding, when we skip over to the next chapter, "chapter VII, The Compendium of Conditionality, Mind for Mind-and-Matter, pg307" we see the author using the Path factor group just explained to his convenience of making things easier to follow, to help understand the Conditional Relations. The author writes:
In five ways mind is a condition for mind-and-matter:
Roots, jhana factors, path factors are a condition for conascent mind-and-matter by way of root, etc.....



the guide describes the path factors(path condition) as:
Path Condition (18) is a condition where a conditioning state relates to the conditioned states by causing them to function as a means for reaching a particular destination. The conditioning states in this relation are the twelve path factors, which reduce to nine cetasikas(see VII,17,23). The four wrong path factors are the means for reaching the woeful destinations; the eight right path factors are the means for reaching the blissful destinations and Nibbana. The conditioned states are all cittas except the eighteen that are rootless, the associated cetasikas, and the conascent material phenomena. While the path factors in the resultant and functional cittas do not lead to any destinations, they are still classed as path factors because, considered abstractly in their own nature, they are identical with those capable of leading to different destinations.



Overall I like to think the author was just trying to work with the KISS system of explaining things (Keep It Simple Stupid) :D I guess either way we choose to see/remember the path factors, keeping them in mind will no doubt always help to realize what side of the path were on!
"Bhikkhus, possessing five factors, speech is well spoken, not badly spoken; it is blameless and beyond reproach by the wise. What five? It is spoken at the proper time; what is said is true; it is spoken gently; what is said is beneficial; it is spoken with a mind of loving-kindness. Possessing these five factors, speech is well spoken, not badly spoken; it is blameless and beyond reproach by the wise."
AN 5 198

SarathW
Posts: 2746
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am
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Re: Why only 12 Maggangas? Why not 16?

Postby SarathW » Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:39 pm

Thank both of you for great answers.
I still do not fully comprehend this. (I do not doubt your answers) :)
But I will accept as it is for the moment.
:reading:


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