Sutta Citation Styles Differences Driving Me Nuts!

Exploring the Dhamma, as understood from the perspective of the ancient Pali commentaries.
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danieLion
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Sutta Citation Styles Differences Driving Me Nuts!

Post by danieLion »

This is probably a basic question. Using the Satipatthana Sutta as an example, why do some authors usually just cite it as just MN 10 (e.g., Thanissaro) while other authors cite it just as M I 55-63 (e.g., Analayo), and yet others cite it as both (e.g., Bodhi)? It makes following and comparing references frustrating! Anyone know any heuristics for this, preferably non-digital and/or off-line?

On a related topic: I'm going to start purchasing Sutta Collections books, e.g., I'm looking at Bodhi's Majjhima Nikaya translation to start. How's that sit with the experts? Does the same go for his Anguttara Nikaya and Digha Nikayha translations?

Thanks.
Daniel
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tiltbillings
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Re: Sutta Citation Styles Differences Driving Me Nuts!

Post by tiltbillings »

danieLion wrote:This is probably a basic question. Using the Satipatthana Sutta as an example, why do some authors usually just cite it as just MN 10 (e.g., Thanissaro) while other authors cite it just as M I 55-63 (e.g., Analayo), and yet others cite it as both (e.g., Bodhi)? It makes following and comparing references frustrating! Anyone know any heuristics for this, preferably non-digital and/or off-line?

On a related topic: I'm going to start purchasing Sutta Collections books, e.g., I'm looking at Bodhi's Majjhima Nikaya translation to start. How's that sit with the experts? Does the same go for his Anguttara Nikaya and Digha Nikayha translations?

Thanks.
Daniel
His translation are well regarded. The Digha was translated by Maurice Walshe.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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mikenz66
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Re: Sutta Citation Styles Differences Driving Me Nuts!

Post by mikenz66 »

danieLion wrote:This is probably a basic question. Using the Satipatthana Sutta as an example, why do some authors usually just cite it as just MN 10 (e.g., Thanissaro) while other authors cite it just as M I 55-63 (e.g., Analayo), and yet others cite it as both (e.g., Bodhi)? It makes following and comparing references frustrating! Anyone know any heuristics for this, preferably non-digital and/or off-line?
MN 10 is the sutta number.
M I 55-63 is pages 55-63 of volume I of the Pali (not translated) version from the Pali Text Society (PTS). This allows for a more specific reference in a long sutta than just the Sutta number.
Sutta Central: http://www.suttacentral.net" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; is useful for searching. You can put in either style.

Note that there are some differences in reference numbers for the SN suttas between the translations on Access to Insight http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Metta Net http://awake.kiev.ua/dhamma/tipitaka/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and Bhikkhu Bodhi's translation. But the PTS page references should be the same...
danieLion wrote: On a related topic: I'm going to start purchasing Sutta Collections books, e.g., I'm looking at Bodhi's Majjhima Nikaya translation to start. How's that sit with the experts? Does the same go for his Anguttara Nikaya and Digha Nikayha translations?
After "In the Buddha's Words" I read the Nanamoli-Bodhi MN. There are many on-line talks on that Nikaya, from both Bhikkhu Bodhi, the Monks and Nuns at BSWA, and many others.
The Wisdom DN translation is by Maurice Walsh. Their SN, and upcoming AN are by BB.
http://www.wisdompubs.org/Pages/c_teachings.lasso" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I think they are the best available in English, with extensive notes and cross-references. In fact, they are the only complete modern translations, since the alternative PTS translations (which these supersede) are getting rather old (the BB translations are co-published with PTS).

:anjali:
Mike
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retrofuturist
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Re: Sutta Citation Styles Differences Driving Me Nuts!

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,

Indeed, an online translation conversion number table would be handy.

Like one that converts Centigrade to Fahrenheit, or metric measures to imperial ones.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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mikenz66
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Re: Sutta Citation Styles Differences Driving Me Nuts!

Post by mikenz66 »

retrofuturist wrote: Indeed, an online translation conversion number table would be handy.
http://www.suttacentral.net/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; does translate from e.g. MN i 1 to MN 1.

:anjali:
Mike
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retrofuturist
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Re: Sutta Citation Styles Differences Driving Me Nuts!

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings Mike,

I just tried entering MN i 1 and it didn't bring back anything... maybe I'm not doing it right. Can you explain how to use the site in such a way as to return the corresponding alternative sutta reference codes?

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
danieLion
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Re: Sutta Citation Styles Differences Driving Me Nuts!

Post by danieLion »

You guys are awesome. Thanks.
Daniel :heart:
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mikenz66
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Re: Sutta Citation Styles Differences Driving Me Nuts!

Post by mikenz66 »

retrofuturist wrote: I just tried entering MN i 1 and it didn't bring back anything... maybe I'm not doing it right. Can you explain how to use the site in such a way as to return the corresponding alternative sutta reference codes?
Enter MN i 1 and select: Volume/Page reference
Whereas if you enter MN 1 you select: Abbreviation and number

:anjali:
Mike
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Re: Sutta Citation Styles Differences Driving Me Nuts!

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings Mike,

Ah yes, thanks... selecting "Abbreviation and number" did the trick.

I think I might have a bit of a play with this... :ugeek:

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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