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Have we been to all the realms?
Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 4:42 pm
by Lombardi4
Is there a sutta that says that we have all been to all (31?) realms in this long course of samsara (except, of course, the suddhavasa, which is reserved for anagamis only)?
Re: Have we been to all the realms?
Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 5:07 pm
by DNS
When I saw the title of the thread the first thing that came to mind was the Pure Abodes, but I see you already thought of them.
The Pure Abodes are the realms none of us have been to, including the Buddha because once there (anagamis) enlightenment is guaranteed and thus, nibbana.
As far as the rest, I don't know, perhaps an imponderable.
Re: Have we been to all the realms?
Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 6:25 pm
by daverupa
David N. Snyder wrote:perhaps an imponderable.
As it happens:
MN 2 wrote:"This is how he attends inappropriately: 'Was I in the past? Was I not in the past?
What was I in the past? How was I in the past? Having been what, what was I in the past?
Re: Have we been to all the realms?
Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 9:08 pm
by Polar Bear
Well, if rebirth is true then we've all been around for an incalculable amount of aeons. So, the answer is probably.
Re: Have we been to all the realms?
Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 9:11 pm
by mikenz66
As Dave notes:
daverupa wrote:
MN 2 wrote:"This is how he attends inappropriately: 'Was
I in the past?
fabricating an "I" from the past (or the present, for that matter) is a mistake. Therefore, the question:
Have we been to all the realms?
is fatally flawed (
).
Mike
Re: Have we been to all the realms?
Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 9:25 pm
by mikenz66
Actually, perhaps my (and Dave's) post is a little off-topic, since the Buddha does use conventional language in a number of suttas, such as:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
At Savatthi. There the Blessed One said: "From an inconstruable beginning comes transmigration. A beginning point is not evident, though beings hindered by ignorance and fettered by craving are transmigrating & wandering on. A being who has not been your mother at one time in the past is not easy to find... A being who has not been your father... your brother... your sister... your son... your daughter at one time in the past is not easy to find.
"Why is that? From an inconstruable beginning comes transmigration. A beginning point is not evident, though beings hindered by ignorance and fettered by craving are transmigrating & wandering on. Long have you thus experienced stress, experienced pain, experienced loss, swelling the cemeteries — enough to become disenchanted with all fabricated things, enough to become dispassionate, enough to be released."
However, I think one should carefully consider what such Suttas are designed to teach to the listeners, bearing in mind the sutta that Dave quoted.
Mike