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Does the awakened mind "think"?

Posted: Sun May 06, 2012 3:31 pm
by Coyote
Reading Ajahn Chah, he mentions that the Buddha "stopped thinking". How is this to be understood in the Theravada framework? I am still very new to Pali terms, abhidammma and commentary and so on, and often the original term (in this case) has not been provided. Any insights, suttas, abidhamma, commentary passages that would help me understand would be greatly appreciated. I want to deepen my understanding of the Theravada philosophical framework.
My initial thoughts would be that because he no longer clings to the Khandhas, no Sankharas arise, and yet he does not wink out of existance at the moment of Awakening, because we say that there is Nibbana "with remainder". Why is there no thinking then?

Re: Does the awakened mind "think"?

Posted: Sun May 06, 2012 4:00 pm
by bodom
FYI here is the passage in question in which Ajahn Chah is giving meditation instructions:
At this stage you don't need to think. You've already done a great deal of thinking at home, haven't you? It just stirs up the heart. You must establish some awareness. Obsessive thinking can even bring you tears, just try it out. Getting lost in some train of thought won't lead you to the truth, it's not wisdom. The Buddha was a very wise person, he'd learned how to stop thinking. In the same way you are practicing here in order to stop thinking and thereby arrive at peace. If you are already calm it is not necessary to think, wisdom will arise in its place.
Meditation
http://www.ajahnchah.org/book/Meditation1.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

:anjali:

Re: Does the awakened mind "think"?

Posted: Sun May 06, 2012 4:29 pm
by Coyote
Thanks! I also recall that he says somthing similar in "Food for the Heart", but I can't remember where.

Re: Does the awakened mind "think"?

Posted: Sun May 06, 2012 4:39 pm
by bodom
Coyote wrote:..he says somthing similar in "Food for the Heart..
All beings, including humans, tend to see the arising as themselves, the existence as themselves, and the cessation as themselves. Thus they cling to everything. They don't want things to be the way they are, they don't want them to be otherwise. For instance, having arisen they don't want things to cease; having experienced happiness, they don't want suffering. If suffering does arise they want it to go away as quickly as possible, but even better if it doesn't arise at all. This is because they see this body and mind as themselves, or belonging to themselves, and so they demand those things to follow their wishes.

This sort of thinking is like building a dam or a dike without making an outlet to let the water through. The result is that the dam bursts. And so it is with this kind of thinking. The Buddha saw that thinking in this way is the cause of suffering. Seeing this cause, the Buddha gave it up.


:anjali:

Re: Does the awakened mind "think"?

Posted: Sun May 06, 2012 4:48 pm
by bodom
Now that we have the context in which Ajahn Chah talked about the Buddha and the stopping of the thought process it would be good if any members could shed light on this matter from the classical Theravada point of view. Also just a reminder when quoting any passages from the tipitaka or commentaries to provide a source or reference.

:anjali:

Re: Does the awakened mind "think"?

Posted: Sun May 06, 2012 7:52 pm
by Goofaholix
Ajahn Chah saiod "he learned how to stop thinking" he didn't say thinking no longer occurred.

So what he said was the Buddha had the ability to to prevent thought that was useless at the time, not that all thinking ceased forever as that would be brain dead.

Re: Does the awakened mind "think"?

Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 4:18 am
by reflection
The thought he wants to think, that, he thinks; the thought he does not want to think, that, he does not think. He has cut down craving, removed the fetter, rightly mastered pride, and made an end of suffering.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... el021.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
But most of our thoughts are actually quite fruitless, so naturally the mind of an awakened one will be very still. But what Ajahn Chah seemed to want to point out is that you can't think your way to peace/insight.

Re: Does the awakened mind "think"?

Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 7:46 pm
by Coyote
Goofaholix wrote:Ajahn Chah saiod "he learned how to stop thinking" he didn't say thinking no longer occurred.

So what he said was the Buddha had the ability to to prevent thought that was useless at the time, not that all thinking ceased forever as that would be brain dead.
I see now. My mistake, I thought he was referring to the cessation of the though proccess at Nibbana. Makes a lot more sense now.