Moderator: Mahavihara moderator
retrofuturist wrote:Greetings Son,
I think it's best to avoid assuming that because a mindstate is applicable to one of the twelve nidanas, that it therefore doesn't apply to another. They are not mutually exclusive in this regard.
The treatment of dependent origination in Classical Theravada is complex, so I won't comment beyond that for now.
Alobha wrote:Now about hatred/ill will (dosa)... from my perspective: it replaces greed when there is a negative feeling. A positive feeling can be craved for, but not a negative feeling - here ill-will or hatred would come in place as to "crave" for getting away from that which is unpleasant. But that is just my understanding how dosa fits in, really.
I have heard that on one occasion the Blessed One was living among the Kurus. Now, the Kurus have a town named Kammasadhamma. There Ven. Ananda approached the Blessed One and, on arrival, having bowed down to the Blessed One, sat to one side. As he was sitting there he said to the Blessed One: "It's amazing, lord, it's astounding, how deep this dependent co-arising is, and how deep its appearance, and yet to me it seems as clear as clear can be."
[The Buddha:] "Don't say that, Ananda. Don't say that. Deep is this dependent co-arising, and deep its appearance. It's because of not understanding and not penetrating this Dhamma that this generation is like a tangled skein, a knotted ball of string, like matted rushes and reeds, and does not go beyond transmigration, beyond the planes of deprivation, woe, and bad destinations.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
Alobha wrote:Take a look here: http://www.palikanon.com/english/wtb/dic_idx.html
The pali term for the unwholesome root of delusion or ignorance is moha, as Nyanatiloka says:
Avija is the first part of the chain of dependent origination, so the root of delusion is pretty much how the chain starts.. I don't know the exact difference between avija and moha, but if you regard them as synonymous as suggested, that makes pretty much sense.
The same goes for craving/greed (lobha) and craving in the teaching of dependent origination (which is here called tanha):
And yes, greed (the unwholesome root), synonmous to craving (Tanha in the dependent origination), is also similar to clinging. Clinging is regarded as a more intensified degree of craving.
Clinging, (pali: Upadana) can be looked up here: http://www.palikanon.com/english/wtb/u_v/upaadaana.htm
You can also find the pali-sources in the dictionary links provided. I find the pali words helpful for orientation, because the various english terms can cause quite a confusion.
Now about hatred/ill will (dosa)... from my perspective: it replaces greed when there is a negative feeling. A positive feeling can be craved for, but not a negative feeling - here ill-will or hatred would come in place as to "crave" for getting away from that which is unpleasant. But that is just my understanding how dosa fits in, really.
Son wrote:My goodness me thank you so much. That's the sort of knowledge I was looking for. You're right, the English terms can be confusing especially if they're being used by non native Theravadin teachers, or by translations made by Americans. The Buddha does sort of describe ill will and hatred in that way, while answering the questions of Sakkha Deva. So I'm thankful for your insight.
porpoise wrote:I find the words "craving" ( tanha ) and "aversion" ( dosa ) give a good feel. Pulling in and pushing away.
Users browsing this forum: Yahoo [Bot] and 3 guests