To Nirvana in 5 sentences

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To Nirvana in 5 sentences

Postby twelph » Tue Aug 07, 2012 4:41 am

An excellent post that I keep coming back to!

http://theravadin.wordpress.com/2011/07 ... sentences/

Pali:
“Aniccaññeva, bhikkhave, bhikkhu rūpaṃ aniccanti passati. Sāssa hoti sammādiṭṭhi. Sammā passaṃ nibbindati. Nandikkhayā rāgakkhayo, rāgakkhayā nandikkhayo. Nandirāgakkhayā cittaṃ vimuttaṃ suvimuttanti vuccati. Aniccaññeva, bhikkhave, bhikkhu vedanaṃ…saññaṃ…saṅkhārā…viññāṇaṃ aniccanti passati. Sāssa hoti sammādiṭṭhi. Sammā passaṃ nibbindati. Nandikkhayā rāgakkhayo, rāgakkhayā nandikkhayo. Nandirāgakkhayā cittaṃ vimuttaṃ suvimuttanti vuccati.”


Translation:
The monks sees the impermanent form thus “impermanent”. This is his right view. Seeing correctly he becomes disenchanted. With the waning of delight wanes passion. With the waning of passion wanes delight. With the destruction of delight and passion the mind is de-tached. “Fully de-tached” thus it is said.


I would greatly appreciate if someone could find me an alternative translation with this passage in the context of the rest of the sutta. It seems as though I am not well versed in using Google for specific suttas.
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Re: To Nirvana in 5 sentences

Postby mikenz66 » Tue Aug 07, 2012 5:08 am

Hi Twelph,

Bhikkhu Bodhi SN 22.51
51 (9) Destruction of Delight (1)

At Sāvatthī. “Bhikkhus, a bhikkhu sees as impermanent form which is actually impermanent: that is his right view. Seeing rightly, he experiences revulsion. With the destruction of delight comes the destruction of lust; with the destruction of lust comes the destruction of delight. With the destruction of delight and lust the mind is liberated and is said to be well liberated.[68]

“A bhikkhu sees as impermanent feeling which is actually impermanent … perception which is actually impermanent … volitional formations which are actually impermanent … consciousness which is actually impermanent: that is his right view…. With the destruction of delight and lust the mind is liberated and is said to be well liberated.”

    [68] Spk: The mutual destruction of delight (nandi) and lust (rāga) is stated to show that in denotation there is actually no difference between them. Or, alternatively, one abandons delight by experiencing revulsion, (which occurs) through the contemplation of revulsion (nibbidānupassanā); one abandons lust by becoming dispassionate, (which occurs) through the contemplation of dispassion (virāgānupassanā). To this extent, having set up insight [Spk-pṭ: with the phrase, “with the destruction of delight comes the destruction of lust,” which consummates the function of insight], by the phrase “with the destruction of lust comes the destruction of delight” he shows the path; and by the phrase “with the destruction of delight and lust the mind is liberated” the fruit is shown.
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Re: To Nirvana in 5 sentences

Postby twelph » Tue Aug 07, 2012 5:58 am

mikenz66 wrote:Hi Twelph,

Bhikkhu Bodhi SN 22.51
51 (9) Destruction of Delight (1)

At Sāvatthī. “Bhikkhus, a bhikkhu sees as impermanent form which is actually impermanent: that is his right view. Seeing rightly, he experiences revulsion. With the destruction of delight comes the destruction of lust; with the destruction of lust comes the destruction of delight. With the destruction of delight and lust the mind is liberated and is said to be well liberated.[68]

“A bhikkhu sees as impermanent feeling which is actually impermanent … perception which is actually impermanent … volitional formations which are actually impermanent … consciousness which is actually impermanent: that is his right view…. With the destruction of delight and lust the mind is liberated and is said to be well liberated.”

    [68] Spk: The mutual destruction of delight (nandi) and lust (rāga) is stated to show that in denotation there is actually no difference between them. Or, alternatively, one abandons delight by experiencing revulsion, (which occurs) through the contemplation of revulsion (nibbidānupassanā); one abandons lust by becoming dispassionate, (which occurs) through the contemplation of dispassion (virāgānupassanā). To this extent, having set up insight [Spk-pṭ: with the phrase, “with the destruction of delight comes the destruction of lust,” which consummates the function of insight], by the phrase “with the destruction of lust comes the destruction of delight” he shows the path; and by the phrase “with the destruction of delight and lust the mind is liberated” the fruit is shown.



Thank you!
:anjali:
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Re: To Nirvana in 5 sentences

Postby twelph » Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:20 am

I have a question about the pali word "nibbindati". Between the two translators, one chose to use the word "disenchanted" while the other uses "revulsion". Revulsion seem to be an aversive attitude, and I am wondering if this is a useful way to go about practicing?
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Re: To Nirvana in 5 sentences

Postby mikenz66 » Tue Aug 07, 2012 7:20 am

Hi Twelph,

Definitely not aversive. Here is Bhikkhu Bodhi's explanation from his introduction:
Nibbidā, in MLDB [the Nanamoli/Bodhi MN translation], was translated “disenchantment.” However, the word or its cognates is sometimes used in ways which suggest that something stronger is intended. Hence I now translate the noun as “revulsion” and the corresponding verb nibbindati as “to experience revulsion.” What is intended by this is not a reaction of emotional disgust, accompanied by horror and aversion, but a calm inward turning away from all conditioned existence as comprised in the five aggregates, the six sense bases, and the first noble truth. Revulsion arises from knowledge and vision of things as they really are (yathābhūtañāṇadassana), and naturally leads to dispassion (virāga) and liberation (vimutti; on the sequence, see 12:23 http://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=11701).

While "revulsion" may bring in connotations of aversion, I think that the point is that "disenchantment" sounds a bit casual. As with many Pali terms (like dukkha), it is probably best to think in terms of the Pali word as much as possible.

:anjali:
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Re: To Nirvana in 5 sentences

Postby twelph » Tue Aug 07, 2012 7:51 am

mikenz66 wrote:As with many Pali terms (like dukkha), it is probably best to think in terms of the Pali word as much as possible.


Thanks for the clarification. I'm getting a little better at thinking in this way for certain pali terms, though I seem to have a reliance on similes for a lot of them.
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