Does magga included in dukkha?

[do1]

I heard opinion, that becasue it is said 'sabbe sankhara dukkha' and that sankhara include all phenomena except nibbana, so magga and different magga phalas also included in dukkha. Can this opinion be backed or refuted with authoritative sources? That sounds quite paradoxal that things like lokuttara cittani is suffering.

[daverupa]

All that is felt is included in dukkha. In and of itself the Path is not nibbana; conducive thereto, but not to be clung to. There is sammanibbana, which is nibbana without the intention to enjoy it; that would be to conceive nibbana, per MN 1. The Dhamma-raft must be deposited on the far shore or set adrift, because it too is conditioned, despite being efficacious.

[santa100]

MN 24 ( http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html ) uses the analogy of the 7 relay chariots to show the 7 stages of purification before one could reach Anupada-parinibbana. Bhikkhu Bodhi noted that even the 7th and last stage of nanadassanavisuddhi, being supramundane(lokuttara), is still "conditioned"(sankhata), thus none of these seven stages is Liberation itself. In short, the chariots are the means one must use to reach the destination, but they themselves are not the destination..

[Alex123]

Maggaphala leads to cessation of dukkha, but as long as 5 aggregates are, some form of dukkha still is. One can't be in phalasamapatti forever, it is still anicca.
What is anicca is dukkha.

Imho.

[Hanzze]

Namatthu Ratanattayassa

Read this niyama before read my reply :
http://www.84000.org/tipitaka/dic/d_item.php?i=205
First is tīraṇapariññā-kicca. Second is pahāna-kicca. Third is sacchikiriyā-kicca. The last is bhāvanā-kicca.

---------------------Explanation------------------------------

All khandha, included 8 maggas are anicca, dukkha, and anatta that have tilakkhaṇa --aniccalakkhaṇa, dukkhalakkhaṇa, and anattalakkhaṇa.

However, the Buddha had taught tilakkhana to make us see dukkha-ariyasacca by doing tīraṇapariñākicca--vipassana meditation or you can call magga, that we must contemplation--observe, tilakkhana of all kandha until they all become anicca, dukkha, and anatta in your attitude (in sutta aphorism is "He regards whatever phenomena as inconstant, stressful,...,not-self"--AN 4.124 PTS: A ii 128).

But pubbbhāgamagga, that name lokiya-maggas, hadn't taught for that kicca. They have being to be bhāvanā-kicca. Till they couldn't usable to eradicate kilesa, then we could do pahana-kicca to them.

Another case, if maggas or any saṅkhāra can't attached by any kilesa, they will have tilaksana, accept dukkalakkhaṇa, but they are not dukkha-ariyasacca. In this case, maggas refer to lokuttara-magga.

End case, magga-cetasikas are not dukkha-vedanā. However, dukkha-vedanā can arise with magga-cetasika in magga-citta (maggacittuppāda).

Does a magga-cetasika realy cause vedana, or are they somehow side conditions which cause the turning on? And if a magga-cetasika realy condition vedana which kind and is that free of dukkha?

[theY]

^

I'm sorry, I have deleted that post before I read your reply.

This is a newer version...

Namatthu Ratanattayassa

Read this niyama before read my reply :
http://www.84000.org/tipitaka/dic/d_item.php?i=205
First is tīraṇapariññā-kicca. Second is pahāna-kicca. Third is sacchikiriyā-kicca. The last is bhāvanā-kicca.

--------------------------- Explanation ---------------------------

We have 4 dukkhas .-
1. dukkha-ariyasacca (paramattha)
2. dukkha-lakkhaṇa (puññatti)
3. dukkhas that have dukkha-lakkhaṇa, but some of them are dukkha-ariyasacca, and some of them are not (variety of words)
4. dukkha-vedanā-cetasika

And we have 3 maggas.-
1. 8 lokiya-magga-cetasikas
2. 8 lokuttara-magga-cetasikas
3. lokuttara-maggacittuppāda (citta + 36 lokuttara-magga-cetasika)

All khandha, included 8 maggas are anicca, dukkha, and anattā that have tilakkhaṇa --aniccalakkhaṇa, dukkhalakkhaṇa, and anattalakkhaṇa.

However, the Buddha had taught tilakkhaṇa to make us see dukkha-ariyasacca by doing tīraṇapariñā-kicca--vipassana meditation or you can call magga, that we must contemplation--observe, tilakkhana of all kandha until they all become anicca, dukkha, and anatta in your attitude (in sutta aphorism is "He regards whatever phenomena as inconstant, stressful,...,not-self"--AN 4.124 PTS: A ii 128).

But pubbbhāgamagga, that name lokiya-maggas, hadn't taught for that kicca. They have being to be bhāvanā-kicca. Till they couldn't usable to eradicate kilesa, then we could do pahana-kicca to them.

Another case, if maggas or any saṅkhāra can't attached by any kilesa, they will have tilaksana, accept dukkalakkhaṇa, but they are not dukkha-ariyasacca. In this case, maggas refer to lokuttara-magga.

End case, magga-cetasikas are not dukkha-vedanā-cetasika. However, dukkha-vedanā can arise together with magga-cetasika in magga-citta (maggacittuppāda).

[theY]

Does a magga-cetasika realy cause vedana, or are they somehow side conditions which cause the turning on? And if a magga-cetasika realy condition vedana which kind and is that free of dukkha?

arise with == born together == born, being, and die, at the same time