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If you forget where, write Savatthi.

Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:48 pm
by lojong1
I've heard that in the vinaya, monks are told that if they forget where a discourse was given, they should say it was given at Savatthi. Where is this, and if it doesn't say why, why?

Re: If you forget where, write Savatthi.

Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:27 pm
by Cittasanto
lojong1 wrote:I've heard that in the vinaya, monks are told that if they forget where a discourse was given, they should say it was given at Savatthi. Where is this, and if it doesn't say why, why?
That is in the Mulasarvastivadin vinaya, if I remember correctly, and not in the Theravada Vinaya. But the rule does seam to apply to the Theravadin Canon.
if you get an oportunity to read "Mindfulness in Early Buddhism", by Tse-fu Kuan, London: Routledge, November 2007, it is on page 135-136. Unfortunately it is very expensive.

Re: If you forget where, write Savatthi.

Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:43 pm
by Cittasanto
lojong1 wrote:I've heard that in the vinaya, monks are told that if they forget where a discourse was given, they should say it was given at Savatthi. Where is this, and if it doesn't say why, why?
The rule if I remember correctly is actually incase a reciters memory lapses and one can not remember the location, or who it was with. it can be one of the six great cities, with a certain hiararchy placed with Savati at the top. or if it was a person, it could be a prominent lay supporter, king, bhikkhuni, bhikkhu, prominent mendicant disciple, or the Buddha himself depending on the role people played would depend on who was speaking teaching ... obviously. As these points are not as important as the Dhamma these can be altered without the meaning being changed, the truth is the truth no matter where or who speaks it.
and that is the point of the suttas, although some important information about context can be contained in the opening sequence of the texts the location and who it was between are not important, the important point is the truth and preserving the path to the truth. the Texts are a map and guide to compare the practice they are talking about with our own experience.

Re: If you forget where, write Savatthi.

Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 2:30 pm
by Sekha
see also Analayo's article p.39 note 19, where there is a reference to a paper by Schopen: "Schopen 1997/2994: 395 -407"

http://www.buddhismuskunde.uni-hamburg. ... onSela.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;