compassion

[Gena1480]

Bless one was a teacher for human and Gods
He is the teacher for those ready to be tamed.
what about those beings that are not ready to be tamed?
i ask this question?

[Coyote]

Hi Gena.

Remember when the Buddha was newly-awakened, and when persuaded to teach taught his ascetic-friends? He did this because he knew they would be able to understand what he was saying.
I could be wrong, but in what I have read of the suttas, the Buddha never really chases after someone. He makes himself available for teaching and debate and if people don't come, or they don't get it then that is their problem. Some people walked away in anger after talking to the Buddha because of this.
Where compassion comes in is in making the Dhamma freely available, just like the Buddha did. With this you can help any who are able to be helped. But it is important to stress that only those who are "ready to be tamed" will be able to receive the help. Maybe one day those who were not ready to be tamed will be, in another life. But for now it is best for us to concentrate on helping ourselves and those who are really dedicated, and to preserve the dispensation for a long time out of compassion for future generations.

Just my thoughts,

Coyote

[Gena1480]

Coyote
i do see this freedom
you are talking about.

[Nyorai]

Bless one was a teacher for human and Gods
He is the teacher for those ready to be tamed.
what about those beings that are not ready to be tamed?
i ask this question?

In the modern world, and so many knowledge and internet information around, you encounter Buddhism and realize it, rest on your "tamed" bliss, until people sincerely desired your wisdom truly be of assistance to them. Buddhism is not about demanding other lifestyle to be same, as individual buddhist or society has past karmic that required to have job for living. Unless he/she is so blessed in their past life that they can simply just go jobless and fully on bliss. metta

[Gena1480]

you call jobless as bliss
you are saying to rely on my bliss
the only bliss i will rely on is of that is devoid of sensuality
if it requires for me to not to work (then be it)
i will look for work that is leading me toward end of sensual pleasure.

[Gena1480]

Nyorai
sorry to sound a bit rude
developing of bliss
this is something i have not thought of
interesting.
so what has been realized
need to be developed.
i though developing leads to realizing.

[convivium]

compassion follows from cutting off the sense of being a separate or independent self from the rest of the world.
how to stay beyond this subject object dichotomy and so remain compassionate is what the eightfold path is at least proximately concerned with (lasting change in consciousness, as opposed to temporary fleeting moments of seeing this we can get in e.g. great art.

[Digity]

Would a drunkard who beats his wife be fit to be tamed? Probably not. Not everyone was ready to hear the teachings of the Dhamma. The Buddha was well aware of this and hence the distinction.

[convivium]

was the buddha tamed? it seems like an unfortunate metaphor when the buddha would lash out severely at certain people, live in the forests, and travel all over indian lecturing and teaching all kinds of people.

[Ron-The-Elder]

Gena1480: I could be wrong, but in what I have read of the suttas, the Buddha never really chases after someone. He makes himself available for teaching and debate and if people don't come, or they don't get it then that is their problem. Some people walked away in anger after talking to the Buddha because of this.
Where compassion comes in is in making the Dhamma freely available, just like the Buddha did. With this you can help any who are able to be helped. But it is important to stress that only those who are "ready to be tamed" will be able to receive the help. Maybe one day those who were not ready to be tamed will be, in another life. But for now it is best for us to concentrate on helping ourselves and those who are really dedicated, and to preserve the dispensation for a long time out of compassion for future generations.

I think you are right on the mark. It seems odd in the west to take this approach, but that is the way Buddha taught.

The difficulty I seem to have is with those, particularly of other traditions, who like to debate. I have not yet reached the level of mental equanimity to just bow and walk away. If/ when they pursue me in an argument, I invariably lose it and wind up getting rough with them, which is not in accordance with Buddha's teachings of "right and harmonious speech." Progress not perfection!

[Gena1480]

looks like what has been realized
needs to be developed
when Buddha realized that Jhanas may lead him to awakening. he develop that path and it lead him to awakening
don't remember which suttas.
But those ascetic who practice Jhana before Buddha
did not have this realization
and they develop Jhana for rebirth in high realms.
because when practicing with his teacher the Buddha has the same realization as they teacher, that it leads to rebirth in that dimension.
they were striving for different things.
thats my opinion.

[Gena1480]

i think when he got to fourth Jhana
that realization ripen.