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Is the mind free from defilement before Nibbana? - Dhamma Wheel

Is the mind free from defilement before Nibbana?

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Coyote
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Is the mind free from defilement before Nibbana?

Postby Coyote » Tue Apr 29, 2014 6:47 pm

My question is how the mind comes to be free of greed, aversion and delusion as understood in the Classical tradition.

Is it that nibbana purifies the mind of defilement, or is that that by becoming free of defilement the mind goes out to nibbana? Is nibbana the cause or result of purification?
"If beings knew, as I know, the results of giving & sharing, they would not eat without having given, nor would the stain of miserliness overcome their minds. Even if it were their last bite, their last mouthful, they would not eat without having shared."
Iti 26

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beeblebrox
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Re: Is the mind free from defilement before Nibbana?

Postby beeblebrox » Tue Apr 29, 2014 6:59 pm

Hi Coyote,

I don't know about classical Theravada, but I think that nibbana could be seen as either. It is the result of the Buddha's prior practice; and since he shared it with others, it leads them to their end of greed, hatred and delusion.

:anjali:

SarathW
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Re: Is the mind free from defilement before Nibbana?

Postby SarathW » Wed Apr 30, 2014 12:12 am

I think Nibbana is the result.

This is how I understand it:
=======
Depend on previous berth a person will have various latent factors such as attachment, aversion and ignorance.
See:
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=20500
============
These latent factors manifest and transgress as follows:

Application in practice

1.Root condition. Buddhist training is directed towards eliminating the defilements (kilesaa). The foremost defilements are the three unwholesome roots — greed, hate, and delusion. From these spring others: conceit (maana), speculative views (di.t.thi), skeptical doubt (vicikicchaa), mental torpor (thiina), restlessness (uddhacca), shamelessness (ahirika), lack of moral fear or conscience (anottappa). These defilements function at three levels:

A.Transgression (viitikkama) leading to evil bodily and verbal acts. This is checked by the practice of morality, observing the five precepts.
B.Obsession (pariyu.t.thaana) when the defilements come to the conscious level and threaten to lead to transgression if not restrained by the practice of mindfulness.
C.Latency (anusaya) where they remain as tendencies ready to surface through the impact of sensory stimuli. Security from the defilements can be obtained only by destroying the three roots — greed, hate and delusion — at the level of latency. This requires insight-wisdom (vipassanaa-paññaa), the decisive liberating factor in Buddhism.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... el322.html
============
Following Noble Eightfold Path you eliminate A,B,C above and attain Nirvana.
Eg:
A is eliminated by Sila (virtues)
b is eliminated by Samadhi (concentration)
c is eliminated by wisdom

A,B and C works in tandem
:)
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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beeblebrox
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Re: Is the mind free from defilement before Nibbana?

Postby beeblebrox » Wed Apr 30, 2014 3:09 pm


Coyote
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Re: Is the mind free from defilement before Nibbana?

Postby Coyote » Wed Apr 30, 2014 3:54 pm

Sarathw, Beeblebrox,

I am most interested in the Classical understanding of Nibbana as a paramattha dhamma that has sabhava (intrinsic nature), contacted by the citta during magga and phala moments.

For example: Sujin Boriharnwanaket offers an explanation in "A Survey of Paramattha Dhammas":

http://www.abhidhamma.org/survey6.pdf chapter 5

That seems very consistent with my understanding i.e nibbana as extinction of defilement and parinibbana as extinction of the khandhas. In what way is parinibbana a paramattha dhamma in the classical sense, since nibbana (the paramattha dhamma) does not seem to be experienced on the death of the arahant? There seems to be a divide between the two nibbanas if nibbana is understood in any other way than extinguishment.
"If beings knew, as I know, the results of giving & sharing, they would not eat without having given, nor would the stain of miserliness overcome their minds. Even if it were their last bite, their last mouthful, they would not eat without having shared."
Iti 26

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beeblebrox
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Re: Is the mind free from defilement before Nibbana?

Postby beeblebrox » Wed Apr 30, 2014 5:11 pm


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robertk
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Re: Is the mind free from defilement before Nibbana?

Postby robertk » Wed Apr 30, 2014 5:19 pm

The lokutaara cittas which have nibbana as object are the ones that eradicate kilesa.
They cittas are deeply imbued with refined highly developed wisdom.
http://www.budsas.org/ebud/nina-abhidha ... bhi-23.htm
I heard someone say he wondered if he had attained nibbana: but that is simply cittas with doubt, devoid of wisdom.
It is wisdom that is so strong there would be no doubt and even the stages before nibbana are with highly developed wisdom.

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beeblebrox
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Re: Is the mind free from defilement before Nibbana?

Postby beeblebrox » Wed Apr 30, 2014 7:19 pm


Coyote
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Re: Is the mind free from defilement before Nibbana?

Postby Coyote » Thu May 01, 2014 11:55 am

"If beings knew, as I know, the results of giving & sharing, they would not eat without having given, nor would the stain of miserliness overcome their minds. Even if it were their last bite, their last mouthful, they would not eat without having shared."
Iti 26

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beeblebrox
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Re: Is the mind free from defilement before Nibbana?

Postby beeblebrox » Thu May 01, 2014 1:38 pm

Last edited by beeblebrox on Fri May 02, 2014 2:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Is the mind free from defilement before Nibbana?

Postby Spiny Norman » Thu May 01, 2014 2:00 pm

"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
Dairy Lama

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beeblebrox
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Re: Is the mind free from defilement before Nibbana?

Postby beeblebrox » Thu May 01, 2014 2:23 pm

Last edited by beeblebrox on Thu May 01, 2014 2:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Spiny Norman
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Re: Is the mind free from defilement before Nibbana?

Postby Spiny Norman » Thu May 01, 2014 2:27 pm

"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
Dairy Lama

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beeblebrox
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Re: Is the mind free from defilement before Nibbana?

Postby beeblebrox » Thu May 01, 2014 2:31 pm


Ananda26
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Re: Is the mind free from defilement before Nibbana?

Postby Ananda26 » Thu May 01, 2014 2:54 pm


SarathW
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Re: Is the mind free from defilement before Nibbana?

Postby SarathW » Mon May 05, 2014 11:31 am

“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

Ananda26
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Re: Is the mind free from defilement before Nibbana?

Postby Ananda26 » Sat Jun 21, 2014 2:14 pm



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