Sutta help (finding certain texts)

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Sutta help (finding certain texts)

Postby vkasdn » Sat Jun 21, 2014 12:05 am

sorry if this is posted elsewhere, search didnt prove very helpful, i am looking for a little help if anyone happens to know off-hand that would be great, but basically, there are suttas i have read, i remember the jist but it was so long ago i have forgotten the full context, so i would like to know which suttas they are from, any help would be greatly appreciated.

first one, is there was a sutta, where i think it was the buddha had compared those who we are in association with as being something with a particular odor, and when grass (or something) is kept in the same box, or drawer (or something) it will take the same scent.

second one, someone was speaking to the buddha (forget who) and asked the buddha how he felt, or what kind of pleasure/delight he abides in, he said it was neither pleasant nor unpleasant feeling that he calls pleasant.

there's probably a bunch more i cannot think of right now...if this works out i may post them later depending on the responses
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Re: Sutta help (finding certain texts)

Postby culaavuso » Sat Jun 21, 2014 12:52 am

vkasdn wrote:first one, is there was a sutta, where i think it was the buddha had compared those who we are in association with as being something with a particular odor, and when grass (or something) is kept in the same box, or drawer (or something) it will take the same scent.


This sounds like a mix of perhaps SN 22.89 and AN 8.54 or SN 45.2.
SN 22.89: Khemaka Sutta wrote:"Just like a cloth, dirty & stained: Its owners give it over to a washerman, who scrubs it with salt earth or lye or cow-dung and then rinses it in clear water. Now even though the cloth is clean & spotless, it still has a lingering residual scent of salt earth or lye or cow-dung. The washerman gives it to the owners, the owners put it away in a scent-infused wicker hamper, and its lingering residual scent of salt earth, lye, or cow-dung is fully obliterated.

"In the same way, friends, even though a noble disciple has abandoned the five lower fetters, he still has with regard to the five clinging-aggregates a lingering residual 'I am' conceit, an 'I am' desire, an 'I am' obsession. But at a later time he keeps focusing on the phenomena of arising & passing away with regard to the five clinging-aggregates: 'Such is form, such its origin, such its disappearance. Such is feeling... Such is perception... Such are fabrications... Such is consciousness, such its origin, such its disappearance.' As he keeps focusing on the arising & passing away of these five clinging-aggregates, the lingering residual 'I am' conceit, 'I am' desire, 'I am' obsession is fully obliterated."


AN 8.54: Byagghapajja Sutta wrote:There is the case where a lay person, in whatever town or village he may dwell, spends time with householders or householders' sons, young or old, who are advanced in virtue. He talks with them, engages them in discussions. He emulates consummate conviction in those who are consummate in conviction, consummate virtue in those who are consummate in virtue, consummate generosity in those who are consummate in generosity, and consummate discernment in those who are consummate in discernment. This is called admirable friendship.


SN 45.2: Upaḍḍha Sutta wrote:Admirable friendship, admirable companionship, admirable camaraderie is actually the whole of the holy life. When a monk has admirable people as friends, companions, & comrades, he can be expected to develop & pursue the noble eightfold path.


vkasdn wrote:second one, someone was speaking to the buddha (forget who) and asked the buddha how he felt, or what kind of pleasure/delight he abides in, he said it was neither pleasant nor unpleasant feeling that he calls pleasant.


This sounds like perhaps AN 9.34, which is actually Sariputta explaining how Unbinding is pleasant

AN 9.34: Nibbānasukha wrote:I have heard that on one occasion Ven. Sariputta was staying near Rajagaha in the Bamboo Grove, the Squirrels' Feeding Sanctuary. There he said to the monks, "This Unbinding is pleasant, friends. This Unbinding is pleasant."

When this was said, Ven. Udayin said to Ven. Sariputta, "But what is the pleasure here, my friend, where there is nothing felt?"

"Just that is the pleasure here, my friend: where there is nothing felt."
...


Alternatively it sounds somewhat like part of MN 44 in part of an answer given by Dhammadinna

MN 44: Cūḷavedalla Sutta wrote:Neither-pleasant-nor-painful feeling is pleasant in occurring together with knowledge, and painful in occurring without knowledge.


MN 14 seems somewhat related with a quote attributed to the Buddha:

MN 14: Cūḷa­dukkha­kkhandha Sutta wrote:Now, I — without moving my body, without uttering a word — can dwell sensitive to unalloyed pleasure for a day and a night... for two days & nights... for three... four... five... six... seven days & nights.
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Re: Sutta help (finding certain texts)

Postby vkasdn » Sat Jun 21, 2014 1:18 am

thank you for your prompt and thoughtful reply, you hit the nail right on the head perfectly, thank you again sk much, so greatly appreciated
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Re: Sutta help (finding certain texts)

Postby Ananda26 » Tue Jun 24, 2014 3:23 pm

vkasdn wrote:
someone was speaking to the buddha (forget who) and asked the buddha how he felt, or what kind of pleasure/delight he abides in, he said it was neither pleasant nor unpleasant feeling that he calls pleasant.



Here is a Sutta #59 from Middle Length Discourses of the Buddha where Buddha describes the highest pleasure.

Bahuvedaniya Sutta: The Many Kinds of Feeling
Thus have I heard. Once the Blessed One was staying at Savatthi, in Jeta's Grove, Anathapindika's monastery.[1] Then Carpenter Fivetools went to see the Venerable Udayi. Having saluted him respectfully, he sat down at one side. Thus seated, he asked the Venerable Udayi:

"How many kinds of feelings, reverend Udayi, were taught by the Blessed One?"

"Three kinds of feelings, Carpenter, were taught by the Blessed One: pleasant, painful and neutral feelings. These are the three feelings taught by the Blessed One."

After these words, Carpenter Fivetools said: "Not three kinds of feelings, reverend Udayi, were taught by the Blessed One. It is two kinds of feelings that were stated by the Blessed One: pleasant and painful feelings. The neutral feeling was said by the Blessed One to belong to peaceful and sublime happiness."

But the Venerable Udayi replied: "It is not two feelings that were taught by the Blessed One, but three: pleasant, painful and neutral feelings."

(This exchange of views was repeated for a second and a third time,) but neither was Carpenter Fivetools able to convince the Venerable Udayi, nor could the Venerable Udayi convince Carpenter Fivetools. It so happened that [the] Venerable Ananda had listened to that conversation and went to see the Blessed One about it. Having saluted the Blessed One respectfully, he sat down at one side. Thus seated, he repeated the entire conversation that had taken place between the Venerable Udayi and Carpenter Fivetools.

The Blessed One said: "Ananda, Udayi's way of presentation, with which Carpenter Fivetools disagreed, was correct, indeed. But also Carpenter Fivetool's way of presentation, with which Udayi disagreed, was correct. In one way of presentation I have spoken of two kinds of feelings, and in other ways of presentation I have spoken of three, of six, of eighteen, of thirty-six, and of one hundred and eight kinds of feelings.[2] So the Dhamma has been shown by me in different ways of presentation.

"Regarding the Dhamma thus shown by me in different ways, if there are those who do not agree with, do not consent to, and do not accept what is rightly said and rightly spoken, it may be expected of them that they will quarrel, and get into arguments and disputes, hurting each other with sharp words.

"Regarding the Dhamma thus shown by me in different ways, if there are those who agree with, consent to, and accept what is rightly said and rightly spoken, it may be expected of them that they will live in concord and amity, without dispute, like milk (that easily mixes) with water, looking at each other with friendly eyes.

"There are five strands of sense desire. What are these five? Forms cognizable by the eye that are wished for, desirable, agreeable and endearing, bound up with sensual desire and tempting to lust. Sounds cognizable by the ear... odors cognizable by the nose... flavors cognizable by the tongue... tangibles cognizable by the body, that are wished for, desirable, agreeable and endearing, bound up with sense desire, and tempting to lust. These are the five strands of sense desire. The pleasure and joy arising dependent on these five strands of sense desire, that is called sensual pleasure.

"Now, if someone were to say: 'This is the highest pleasure and joy that can be experienced,' I would not concede that. And why not? Because there is another kind of pleasure which surpasses that pleasure and is more sublime. And what is this pleasure? Here, quite secluded from sensual desires, secluded from unwholesome states of mind, a monk enters upon and abides in the first meditative absorption (jhana), which is accompanied by thought conception and discursive thinking and has in it joy and pleasure born of seclusion. This is the other kind of pleasure which surpasses that (sense) pleasure and is more sublime.

"If someone were to say: 'This is the highest pleasure that can be experienced,' I would not concede that. And why not? Because there is another kind of pleasure which surpasses that pleasure and is more sublime. And what is that pleasure? Here, with the stilling of thought conception and discursive thinking... a monk enters upon and abides in the second meditative absorption... in the sphere of the infinity of space... of the infinity of consciousness... of no-thingness... of neither-perception-nor-non-perception.

"If someone were to say: 'This is the highest pleasure that can be experienced,' I would not concede that. And why not? Because there is another kind of pleasure which surpasses that pleasure and is more sublime. And what is this pleasure? Here, by completely surmounting the sphere of neither-perception-nor-non-perception, a monk enters upon and abides in the cessation of perception and feeling. This is the other kind of pleasure which surpasses that pleasure and is more sublime.[3]

"It may happen, Ananda, that Wanderers of other sects will be saying this: 'The recluse Gotama speaks of the Cessation of Perception and Feeling and describes it as pleasure. What is this (pleasure) and how is this (a pleasure)?'

"Those who say so, should be told: 'The Blessed One describes as pleasure not only the feeling of pleasure. But a Tathagata describes as pleasure whenever and whereinsoever it is obtained.'"

That is what the Blessed One said. The venerable Ananda was satisfied and delighted in the Blessed One's words.
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