Best rebirth: settling for less than nibbana

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Jeffrey
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Best rebirth: settling for less than nibbana

Postby Jeffrey » Wed Jun 25, 2014 7:08 am

Let's say you've given up on nibbana in this lifetime. Which plane of existence offers the best opportunity to reach nibbana in the next lifetime? Should one aim to be reborn in the Brahma or Deva planes, in the formless realm, or as a human?

walkart
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Re: Best rebirth: settling for less than nibbana

Postby walkart » Wed Jun 25, 2014 8:15 am

Humain realm.

SarathW
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Re: Best rebirth: settling for less than nibbana

Postby SarathW » Wed Jun 25, 2014 9:46 am

The best thing is not to give up on Nibbna.
If you strive to attain Nibbna it will naturally will take you to a suitable rebirth.
Take care of your action, the result will take care of itself.
:)
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

Jeffrey
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Re: Best rebirth: settling for less than nibbana

Postby Jeffrey » Wed Jun 25, 2014 9:51 am

Yes, Sarath, I agree. But that's not the problem as presented. Is existence on one plane more (or less) favorable to the attainment of nibanna than another?

bananaporridge
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Re: Best rebirth: settling for less than nibbana

Postby bananaporridge » Wed Jun 25, 2014 10:02 am

In which case "humain realm" without the 'i' is correct as I understand it.

Jeffrey
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Re: Best rebirth: settling for less than nibbana

Postby Jeffrey » Wed Jun 25, 2014 10:24 am

Sutta reference, perhaps?

santa100
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Re: Best rebirth: settling for less than nibbana

Postby santa100 » Wed Jun 25, 2014 1:32 pm


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daverupa
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Re: Best rebirth: settling for less than nibbana

Postby daverupa » Wed Jun 25, 2014 2:04 pm

The point is not that the human realm is best, but that NOW is best because of the conditions which obtain & can be noted. Stepping to the side to consider comparative cosmologies and their relative merits is to take this clarion call to mindfulness and calm awareness right now, and proliferate upon it.

:shrug:

Jeffrey
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Re: Best rebirth: settling for less than nibbana

Postby Jeffrey » Wed Jun 25, 2014 3:09 pm

It seems indeed the point is the human realm is best as it affords better opportunities. Santa cited the Khana sutta (thank you!), about which there is more discussion here: viewtopic.php?f=25&t=8715

To this we might add the Chiggala Sutta on the rarity of human birth in a world with a Tathghata: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

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David N. Snyder
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Re: Best rebirth: settling for less than nibbana

Postby David N. Snyder » Wed Jun 25, 2014 3:13 pm

The Suddhavasa (Pure Abodes). Enlightenment guaranteed.

The pure abodes are inhabited by anagamis who attain enlightenment there in the pure abodes. Attainment there is through merit and proficiency in fourth jhana or higher.

The formless realms are not good places to be. You spend up to 84,000 aeons in something close to nothingness and then fall away to something lower.

Full list of the traditional cosmology: http://www.dhammawiki.com/index.php?tit ... _existence
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Jeffrey
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Re: Best rebirth: settling for less than nibbana

Postby Jeffrey » Wed Jun 25, 2014 3:32 pm

Thanks for that, David. Those interested in a sutta reference might look here:

57. "Sariputta, there are certain recluses and brahmans whose doctrine and view is this: 'Purification comes about through the round of rebirths.' But it is impossible to find a realm in the round that I have not already [82] passed through in this long journey, except for the gods of the Pure Abodes; and had I passed through the round as a god in the Pure Abodes, I would never have returned to this world.[20]

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... tml#fnt-20


Interesting to note the connection between the Pure Abodes and Pure Land theology, in which one is in fact encouraged to aspire to this realm.

So I suppose the Pure Abodes would rank first, human second, as preferred planes of rebirth?

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ihrjordan
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Re: Best rebirth: settling for less than nibbana

Postby ihrjordan » Wed Jun 25, 2014 3:39 pm

I used to always tell myself that I would only strive to become sotapanna and then quit my practice because I was scared of attaining Nibbana..But the more I practice the more I want to attain release. I actually look back and laugh at how childish that goal of mine was :tongue:
"Ko imaṃ pathaviṃ vicessati, yamalokañca imaṃ sadevakaṃ.
ko dhammapadaṃ sudesitaṃ, kusalo pupphamiva pacessati"

bananaporridge
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Re: Best rebirth: settling for less than nibbana

Postby bananaporridge » Wed Jun 25, 2014 3:58 pm

I responded to the original OP referring to giving up on nibbana in the present life,which could involve a variety of circumstance and meaning.So to qualify :human realm as stated ,unless one is a non-returner.So what exactly do you mean by giving up on nibbana?

LXNDR
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Re: Best rebirth: settling for less than nibbana

Postby LXNDR » Wed Jun 25, 2014 8:30 pm

human realm is ideal, unexcelled, wondrous, blameless

unless you are born somewhere in Africa or in slums wheresoever

i guess i know why Buddha wouldn't appear in higher worlds with the the Four Noble Truths and the liberation gospel, because due to the amount of hapiness experienced up there, no one would be interested
the requisite condition for the possibility of liberation is suffering

SarathW
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Re: Best rebirth: settling for less than nibbana

Postby SarathW » Wed Jun 25, 2014 9:46 pm

Re-birth in Africa or in a slum is not a problem as far as you are a human.
I had some encounters with slum kids some years ago and they were very intelligent and were very nice kids.
What is the base of your reasoning?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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Mkoll
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Re: Best rebirth: settling for less than nibbana

Postby Mkoll » Wed Jun 25, 2014 10:09 pm

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

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Mkoll
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Re: Best rebirth: settling for less than nibbana

Postby Mkoll » Wed Jun 25, 2014 10:12 pm

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

LXNDR
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Re: Best rebirth: settling for less than nibbana

Postby LXNDR » Thu Jun 26, 2014 5:14 am


SarathW
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Re: Best rebirth: settling for less than nibbana

Postby SarathW » Thu Jun 26, 2014 5:29 am

“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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Mkoll
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Re: Best rebirth: settling for less than nibbana

Postby Mkoll » Thu Jun 26, 2014 6:09 am

I'm not going to get into a debate about abortion, sorry.

I just posted cold, hard facts. Let's leave it at that.
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa


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