Two new articles on bhikkhunīs

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Dhammanando
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Two new articles on bhikkhunīs

Postby Dhammanando » Mon Nov 23, 2009 8:49 am

Greetings all,

Attached are two articles recently made available by their author, U Pandita (not the Mahasi meditation teacher of this name, but another Burmese scholar monk). The articles are a critique of two contentions in Dr. Juo-Hsüeh Shih's article, Controversies over Buddhist Nuns, namely, her claim that Buddhaghosa misinterprets the term 'anupasampanno' in his commentary to the the Vinaya's duṭṭhullārocana training rule, and the claim (made also by Gombrich) that there once existed bhikkhunīs ordained by the "ehi bhikkhunī" method.

anupasampanno.pdf
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ehibhikkhuni.pdf
(101.9 KiB) Downloaded 124 times
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Ben
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Re: Two new articles on bhikkhunīs

Postby Ben » Mon Nov 23, 2009 10:32 am

Thank you Ajahn!
metta

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Re: Two new articles on bhikkhunīs

Postby Cittasanto » Mon Nov 23, 2009 11:58 am

Thank-you bhante, I will have a read of these later
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He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
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Re: Two new articles on bhikkhunīs

Postby Cittasanto » Mon Nov 23, 2009 2:58 pm

had a read and the second was very interesting more so than the first for me at least
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill

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Re: Two new articles on bhikkhunīs

Postby Dhammanando » Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:00 am

Attached is another article by U Pandita: Was the Buddha Obliged to Observe Vinaya Rules?

buddha_vinaya.pdf
(111.96 KiB) Downloaded 94 times


From the introduction:

    Juo-Hsüeh Shih makes an interesting assumption in her work Controversies over Buddhist Nuns when she discusses the historicity of ñatticatutthakamma ordination form in Vinaya:

    Moreover, evidence in the Mahāparinibbāna Sutta of the DN suggests that the Buddha himself may have used this formula [i. e., the ehibhikkhu formula]1 all his life. (352) So why did the Buddha not follow the procedure [i. e., the ñatticatutthakamma procedure]2 he had himself prescribed? (355) It is more plausible to suggest that the last stage in the evolution of the ordination process, the ñatticatutthakammaupasampadā, began after the Buddha’s death . . . (356)

    Her argument can be schematized as follows:

    1. If the Buddha really prescribed the ñatticatutthakamma ordination during his lifetime, he must have adopted it in giving ordination to his followers.
    2. But he used the older ehibhikkhu formula all his life.
    3. Therefore:
    a) Either he failed to observe his own rule,
    b) Or the ñatticatutthakamma ordination is a later development that has materialized only after his passing away.
    4. But the Buddha could not have failed to observe his own rules.
    5. Therefore, only the conclusion (3b) is plausible.

    As seen above, her argument is based on the assumption that the Buddha was obliged to observe Vinaya rules like his followers. “No one is above the law”, she seems to say, not even the Buddha himself.

    However, I find it difficult to take her assumption at face value because it contradicts the orthodox Theravādin view...
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Re: Two new articles on bhikkhunīs

Postby Cittasanto » Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:09 am

Not read it yet, but down loaded and will read today!
Thank-you Bhante!

EDIT - The download was broken for me? anyone else have any joy downloading it?
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill

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Re: Two new articles on bhikkhunīs

Postby Dhammanando » Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:51 am

I've uploaded it again.It downloads okay onto my computer.
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Re: Two new articles on bhikkhunīs

Postby Cittasanto » Mon Dec 14, 2009 12:07 pm

Downloaded fine that Time Thanks!
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill

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Cittasanto
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Re: Two new articles on bhikkhunīs

Postby Cittasanto » Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:59 pm

Very interesting I managed to read the whole thing instead of 5 pages at a time :)
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill


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