Element Confusion

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clw_uk
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Element Confusion

Postby clw_uk » Mon Jan 19, 2009 10:10 pm

In the Mahapunnama Sutta - MK the buddha says;

"The four great elements, bhikkhu, are the cause and condition for the manifestation of the material form aggregate"

I cant work out how the elements are the cause for the material form, arent the four elements earth, fire, wind, water with, for example, earth just standing for skin, nail etc and so just characteristics of the material aggregate?
Lost to a world in which I crave no part,
I sit alone and listen to my heart,
Pleased with my little corner of the earth,
Glad that I came--not sorry to depart
Richard Le Gallienne

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retrofuturist
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Re: Element Confusion

Postby retrofuturist » Mon Jan 19, 2009 10:54 pm

Greetings,

From memory, I think earth refers to solidity, water refers to cohesion, fire refers to heat, and air refers to movement.

Metta,
Retro. :)
“Delighting in existence O monks, are gods and men; they are attached to existence. they revel in existence. When the Dhamma for the cessation of existence is being preached to them, their minds do not leap towards it, do not get pleased with it, do not get settled in it, do not find confidence in it. That is how, monks, some lag behind … (It. p 43)”

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Dhammanando
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Re: Element Confusion

Postby Dhammanando » Mon Jan 19, 2009 11:20 pm

Hi Craig,

clw_uk wrote:I cant work out how the elements are the cause for the material form


Each of the four great primaries serves as a condition for the arising of the others and collectively they are a condition for the arising of secondary/derivative materiality (e.g., sense organs, gender, life faculty etc.).

Best wishes,
Dhammanando Bhikkhu
    ...and this thought arose in the mind of the Blessed One:
    “Who lives without reverence lives miserably.”
    Uruvela Sutta, A.ii.20

    It were endless to dispute upon everything that is disputable.
    — William Penn Some Fruits of Solitude,

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clw_uk
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Re: Element Confusion

Postby clw_uk » Mon Jan 19, 2009 11:20 pm

Thank you, do you know how they are the origin of material aggregate?
Lost to a world in which I crave no part,
I sit alone and listen to my heart,
Pleased with my little corner of the earth,
Glad that I came--not sorry to depart
Richard Le Gallienne

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Dhammanando
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Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:44 pm
Location: Wat Doi Phra Koed, Chom Thong, Chiang Mai

Re: Element Confusion

Postby Dhammanando » Mon Jan 19, 2009 11:57 pm

Hi Craig,

clw_uk wrote:Thank you, do you know how they are the origin of material aggregate?


The material aggregate is simply a name for the four great primaries and the secondary matter that arises with the great primaries as its proximate cause.

For a full account of rūpa see chapter 6 of the Abhidhammatthsangaha:
http://mail.saigon.com/~anson/ebud/abhisgho/abhis06.htm

Best wishes,
Dhammanando Bhikkhu
    ...and this thought arose in the mind of the Blessed One:
    “Who lives without reverence lives miserably.”
    Uruvela Sutta, A.ii.20

    It were endless to dispute upon everything that is disputable.
    — William Penn Some Fruits of Solitude,


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