The story of a Velvet Apple Tree - right translation?

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Hanzze
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The story of a Velvet Apple Tree - right translation?

Postby Hanzze » Sun Oct 31, 2010 8:34 pm

I was searching for that Story and found this. Is that a good translation?

177 - Tinduka-Jataka
Once upon a time, when Brahmadatta was king in Benares, the Bodhisatta was born as a Monkey, and with a troop of eighty thousand monkeys he lived in Himalaya. Not far off was a village, sometimes inhabited and sometimes empty. And in the midst of this village was a tinduka tree, with sweet fruit, covered with twigs and branches. When the place was empty, all the monkeys used to go thither and eat the fruit.

Once, in the fruit time, the village was full of people, a bamboo palisade set about it, and the gates guarded. And this tree stood with all its boughs bending beneath the weight of the fruit. The monkeys began to wonder "There's such and such a village, where we used to get fruit to eat. I wonder has that tree fruit upon it or no; are the people there or no?" At last they sent a scout monkey to spy. He found that there was fruit on the tree, and the village was crammed with people. When the monkeys heard that was fruit on the tree, they determined to get that sweet fruit to eat; and waxing bold, a crowd of them went and told their chief. The chief asked was the village full or empty; full, they said. "Then you must not go," said he, "because men are very deceitful." "But, Sire, we'll go at midnight, when everybody is fast asleep, and then eat!" So this great company obtained leave of their chief, and came down from the mountains, and waited on a great rock hard by until the people retired to rest; in the middle watch, when people were asleep, they climbed the tree and began eating of the fruit.

A man had to get up in the night for some necessary purpose; he went out into the village, and there he saw the monkeys. At once he gave the alarm; out the people came, armed with bow and quiver, or holding any sort of weapon that came to hand, sticks, or lumps of earth, and surrounded the tree; "when dawn comes," thought they, "we have them!"

The eighty thousand monkeys saw these people, and were scared to death. Thought they, "No help have we but our Chief only;" so to him they came, and recited the first stanza.

"All around us see them stand, warriors armed with bow and quiver,

All around us, sword in hand who is there who can deliver?"

At this the monkey Chief answered "Fear not; human beings have plenty to do. It is the middle watch now; there they stand, thinking We ll kill them!' but we will find some other business to hinder this business of theirs." And to console the Monkeys he repeated the second stanza.

"Men have many things to do; something will disperse the meeting;

See what still remains for you; eat, while fruit is left for eating".

The Great Being comforted the monkey troop. If they had not had this crumb of comfort they would have broken their hearts and perished. When the Great Being had consoled the monkeys, he cried, "Assemble all the monkeys together!" But in assembling them, there was one they could not find, his nephew, a monkey named Senaka. So they told him that Senaka was not among the troop. "If Senaka is not here," said he, "have no fear; he will find a way to help you."
Now at the time when the troop sallied forth, Senaka had been asleep. Later he awoke, and could not see any body about. So he followed their tracks, and by and bye he saw all the people hastening up. "Some danger for our troop," thought he. Just then he spied, in a hut on the outskirts of the village, an old woman, fast asleep, before a lighted fire. And making as though he were a village child going out to the fields, Senaka seized a firebrand, and standing well to monkeys, and hurried up to quench the fire. So the monkeys scampered away, and each brought one fruit for Senaka.


Thanks for helping out!
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_

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Kim OHara
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Re: The story of a Velvet Apple Tree - right translation?

Postby Kim OHara » Sun Oct 31, 2010 9:47 pm

Hanzze wrote:I was searching for that Story and found this. Is that a good translation?

177 - Tinduka-Jataka

The Great Being comforted the monkey troop. If they had not had this crumb of comfort they would have broken their hearts and perished. When the Great Being had consoled the monkeys, he cried, "Assemble all the monkeys together!" But in assembling them, there was one they could not find, his nephew, a monkey named Senaka. So they told him that Senaka was not among the troop. "If Senaka is not here," said he, "have no fear; he will find a way to help you."
Now at the time when the troop sallied forth, Senaka had been asleep. Later he awoke, and could not see any body about. So he followed their tracks, and by and bye he saw all the people hastening up. "Some danger for our troop," thought he. Just then he spied, in a hut on the outskirts of the village, an old woman, fast asleep, before a lighted fire. And making as though he were a village child going out to the fields, Senaka seized a firebrand, and standing well to monkeys, and hurried up to quench the fire. So the monkeys scampered away, and each brought one fruit for Senaka.


Hello, Hanzze,
I don't know the story but it all seems fairly good (except that 80 000 is *way* too many monkeys for one village orchard) until the end section I have quoted here.
This section is not at all clear. It is impossible for me to understand just what happened. A 'firebrand' is a burning stick and 'quench the fire' means put it out, so that looks quite wrong anyway. And how is Senaka, who wasn't with the other monkeys, supposed to have got through the bamboo palisade and guarded gates? And the people were 'hastening up' towards the other monkeys when Senaka arrived, but the other monkeys were already surrounded by the villagers before Senaka started to follow them.
Better to find another version, if you can.
:namaste:
Kim

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cooran
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Re: The story of a Velvet Apple Tree - right translation?

Postby cooran » Mon Nov 01, 2010 6:22 am

Hello Hannze,

The first and the last paragraphs have been left off.

The first paragraph is:
''All around us see them stand,'' etc. - This is a story told by the Master while at Jetavana, about perfect knowledge. As in the Mahabodhi Birth (Jataka 528), and the Ummagga Birth (Jataka 538 (Westergaard)), on hearing his own knowledge praised, he remarked, ''Not this once only is the Buddha wise but wise he was before and fertile in all resource;'' and told the following old story.

The last paragraph is:
''When this discourse came to an end, the Master identified the Birth: Mahanama Sakka was the nephew Senaka of those days; Buddha's followers were the monkey troop; and I myself was their chief.''
================
It is well to remember that the Jataka Verses are Canonical - but the Tales are not.

with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

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Hanzze
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Re: The story of a Velvet Apple Tree - right translation?

Postby Hanzze » Tue Dec 07, 2010 5:23 pm

Ayu vanno sukham balam

_/\_
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_


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