Dhamma Wheel Buddhist Forum

Interbeing custard, that's all there is man, when you look at it that way, like wow we are really all one.
That's my diluted vague birds eye interbeing-D.O. that never quite gets around to how the 12-link interbeing-chain works. Buddha went deep into like the cornflour and everything he was so awesome and I know that's what you were getting at, P.

Oh yes Spiny EMPTINESS yes I didn't have the balls to say it before cuz I thought no one wanted to hear it.
Interbeing is an expression of sunyata!... (googlegoogle) Nagarjuna agrees.

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PS
of sunyata, not necessarily the TNH mahayana take sunyata

Annapurna wrote:

PeterB wrote:
I think it dilutes a radical aspect of the Buddhas teaching.

Which, Peter?

Anatta....which is diluted by the Mahayana take on Sunyata as exemplified in TNH's teaching...there may be other takes on Sunyata that arise from a different view. It is noticeable for example that many Vajrayana teachers, whose view of the Buddhas teachings feature Sunyata strongly, are as uncomfortable with TNH as are some Theravadins.

"Oh yes Spiny EMPTINESS yes I didn't have the balls to say it before cuz I thought no one wanted to hear it.
Interbeing is an expression of sunyata!... (googlegoogle) Nagarjuna agrees.[/quote] "




I doubt that any Theravadin would disagree, and that is WHY they are Theravadin practitioners, not Mahayana practitioners.
If after due consideration we bought into the whole Sunyata thing we would embrace the Mahayana, presumably.
I stopped being a Vajrayana practitioner when it became clear that The Buddhas teaching had no such component.

PeterB wrote:If after due consideration we bought into the whole Sunyata thing we would embrace the Mahayana, presumably.
I stopped being a Vajrayana practitioner when it became clear that The Buddhas teaching had no such component.

What is it about sunyata that you don't like?

Spiny

You mean apart from the fact that it bears no relationship to anything found in the teachings of the Buddha as found in the Pali Canon ?

I dont like or dislike it. Any more than I like or dislike Transubstantiation or The Book or Mormon, they just have nothing to do with Buddha Dhamma.

PeterB wrote:You mean apart from the fact that it bears no relationship to anything found in the teachings of the Buddha as found in the Pali Canon ?

This might be of interest - it's from the Buddhist dictionary on Buddhanet ( Ven Nyanatiloka )

suñña (adj.), suññatā (noun):
void (ness), empty (emptiness). As a doctrinal term it refers, in Theravāda, exclusively to the anattā doctrine,.i.e. the unsubstantiality of all phenomena: "Void is the world ... because it is void of a self and anything belonging to a self" (suññaṃ attena vā attaniyena vā; S. XXXV, 85); also stated of the 5 groups of existence (khandha, q.v.) in the same text.
See also M. 43, M. 106. - In CNidd. (quoted in Vis.M. XXI, 55), it is said: "Eye ... mind, visual objects ... mind-objects, visual consciousness ... mind-consciousness, corporeality ... consciousness, etc., are void of self and anything belonging to a self; void of permanency and of anything lasting, eternal or immutable.. They are coreless: without a core of permanency, or core of happiness or core of self." - In M. 121, the voiding of the mind of the cankers, in the attainment of Arahatship, is regarded as the "fully purified and incomparably highest (concept of) voidness. - See Sn. v. 1119; M. 121; M. 122 (WHEEL 87); Pts.M. II: Suñña-kathā; Vis.M. XXI, 53ff.

suññatānupassanā: 'contemplation of emptiness' (s. prec.), is one of the 18 chief kinds of insight (vipassanā, q.v.). Cf. Vis.M. XXI.

The Pali/Theravada concept of sunna bears little in common with the Sanskrit/ Mahayana concept of Sunyata...of Emptiness with a capital " E".
The former is an expression of Anatta. The latter is not.

Unless of course you can demonstrate within the clear guidelines for this Classical Theravada forum something different ?

OP:

PeterB wrote:From the POV of Classical Theravada can we discern a concept in the Pali Canon that could be rendered as " Interbeing" ?

Concept in the Pali Canon: Lots of empty (small 'e') little anattas running around anicca rupa dependently originating.
Rendering of concept: interbeing
Answer: yes
Boy do I feel useless today.
(Buddhadasa Bhikkhu teaches sunyata in 'Heartwood of the Bodhi Tree'?)

It's not a Theravada concept?, or you can demonstrate that I'm just not allowed that rendering?

Is the OP even a position that can be strawmanned? I ignored TNH and capital 'E's because they aren't there.

I suggest Lojong that you take a wee peep at the Classical Theravada Forum guidelines.

Bhikku Sujato translated these three Sutras on Emptiness from Buddhist Hybrid Sanskrit into Pali and English...they are from the Samyukta Agama and two of them have no equivalents in the Pali Nikayas....hope the link works...Adeh.
http://santifm1.0.googlepages.com/Three ... Sutras.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Dear members

This is a reminder that the focus of this forum is for the understanding of the Classical (Mahaviharan) Theravada. Replies to the OP which do not provide the Classical pov are considered off-topic and liable to be removed. This means that one's own interpretation of a text/s, meditative experiences, conjecture, conversations with devas are considered off-topic. Please review the guidelines for the Classical and Abhidhamma sub-fora.
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Thanks for your cooperation.

Ben

PeterB wrote:The Pali/Theravada concept of sunna bears little in common with the Sanskrit/ Mahayana concept of Sunyata...of Emptiness with a capital " E".
The former is an expression of Anatta. The latter is not.

I'm not sure I agree. However it seems this issue isn't appropriate for debate here.

Spiny