Major Causes of Contention

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Major Causes of Contention

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:30 pm

Mahāviyūha Sutta
Major Causes of Contention

  1. Those who, adhering to their views, dispute “this only is the truth,” either bring blame upon themselves or obtain praise thereby.
  2. The result of the praise is trifling and not enough to bring about tranquillity. I say there are two results of dispute [victory and defeat]; having seen this, let no one dispute, realizing nibbāna where there is no dispute.
  3. The wise one does not embrace all those views that have arisen amongst worldly people. Should he who is free from views be pleased with what has been seen and heard and remain dependent on them?
  4. Those who consider moral practices to be the highest say: “purity comes through restraint; having undertaken a holy practice, let us train in it whence purity comes.” But those so-called experts are still immersed in samsāra.
  5. If he falls away from moral conduct and holy practices, he trembles, having failed in his action; he longs here for purity like a traveller who has lost his caravan while he is away from home.
  6. Having abandoned formal religious practices altogether and actions both “good” and “bad”, neither long for “purity” nor “impurity,” he wanders aloof abstaining from both without adhering to either extreme.
  7. Practising loathsome penances or adhering to what has been seen, heard or thought, they praise purity in high voices - but they are not free from craving for recurring existence.
  8. For him who desires, more desires result; he trembles, deluded by imaginary views. For him who has overcome death and birth why should he tremble and what would he yearn for?
  9. What some regard as the highest view others consider to be worthless. They all claim to be experts: which of them indeed is right?
  10. Each one claims that his own view is perfect and the belief of others is inferior. Thus they enter into dispute; thus each of them says that his own opinion is true.
  11. If a view becomes worthless because it is censured by others, then no one will be distinguished because each one firmly regards another’s view as low whilst one’s own alone is regarded as true.
  12. Just as they honour their views, likewise they praise their ways. If all their views are true then their purity must also be peculiar to them.
  13. To the noble one there is no lead from others, nothing to embrace after investigation of views; he, therefore, has transcended disputation, for he does not see another’s view as the best.
  14. “I know and see, this is just so” - thus saying, some claim purity through that view. What is the point in saying that one has “seen” (the truth) if rival views are put forward.
  15. The man sees mind and matter and having seen he takes them as permanent. Let him see either much or little for experts do not say: “purity comes by that.”
  16. Not easy to discipline is the dogmatist who says this is the truth, being misguided by views: Saying that good is in such preconceptions, he is given to saying that purity is inherent as he has so seen.
  17. The noble one having perceived things through knowledge, does not enter into speculations. Having learnt of diverse theories that have arisen among others, he is indifferent to them whilst others labour to embrace them.
  18. The sage, being freed from worldly ties, remains peaceful among the restless. He is indifferent to sectarian squabbles, not embracing them whilst others remain attached.
  19. Having abandoned former defilements, not inducing new ones, not become partisan, he is free from dogmatic views. Being wise, he neither clings to the world nor blames himself.
  20. By overcoming all the theories based on seen, heard or thought he is a sage who has released his burden and is liberated, not imaginative in views, not aspiring for anything - so said the Buddha.
From the Suttanipāta, trnsln: Hammalawa Saddhatissa
Last edited by Bhikkhu Pesala on Fri Mar 06, 2009 11:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Major Causes of Contention

Postby Ben » Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:36 pm

Dear Bhante

Is there a particular point or question that you wanted to raise for discussion?
Metta

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Re: Major Causes of Contention

Postby nathan » Fri Mar 06, 2009 2:17 am

Ben wrote:Dear Bhante

Is there a particular point or question that you wanted to raise for discussion?
Metta

Ben
Hi Ben. I took it to be this one 'having seen this, let no one dispute, realizing nibbāna where there is no dispute.' It is the main one I think and then addresses some of the reasons for and for refraining from any doctrinal disputes. I appreciate the post. Thank you Ven. Pesala

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Re: Major Causes of Contention

Postby Rui Sousa » Fri Mar 06, 2009 10:24 am

Thank you, Venerable Pesala.

A very inspiring reading to start my day at work.

Holding on to views has been a source of great suffering to this mind, at work, at home, with friends. The shame of saying " I was wrong ! " caused me great grief. Still I enter in disputes and try to win conversations, but I am starting to be able to pull back and stop disputing, inspecting what others are saying with an open mind, without the aim of victory.

May all beings be free from this glueing to views and entering on disputes.
With Metta
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Re: Major Causes of Contention

Postby Cittasanto » Fri Mar 06, 2009 10:43 am

thank-you has given me allot to think about in relation to other things going on in my net life!
:anjali:
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Re: Major Causes of Contention

Postby Individual » Sat Mar 07, 2009 4:02 am

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:Mahāviyūha Sutta
Major Causes of Contention

  1. Those who, adhering to their views, dispute “this only is the truth,” either bring blame upon themselves or obtain praise thereby.
  2. The result of the praise is trifling and not enough to bring about tranquillity. I say there are two results of dispute [victory and defeat]; having seen this, let no one dispute, realizing nibbāna where there is no dispute.
  3. The wise one does not embrace all those views that have arisen amongst worldly people. Should he who is free from views be pleased with what has been seen and heard and remain dependent on them?
  4. Those who consider moral practices to be the highest say: “purity comes through restraint; having undertaken a holy practice, let us train in it whence purity comes.” But those so-called experts are still immersed in samsāra.
  5. If he falls away from moral conduct and holy practices, he trembles, having failed in his action; he longs here for purity like a traveller who has lost his caravan while he is away from home.
  6. Having abandoned formal religious practices altogether and actions both “good” and “bad”, neither long for “purity” nor “impurity,” he wanders aloof abstaining from both without adhering to either extreme.
  7. Practising loathsome penances or adhering to what has been seen, heard or thought, they praise purity in high voices - but they are not free from craving for recurring existence.
  8. For him who desires, more desires result; he trembles, deluded by imaginary views. For him who has overcome death and birth why should he tremble and what would he yearn for?
  9. What some regard as the highest view others consider to be worthless. They all claim to be experts: which of them indeed is right?
  10. Each one claims that his own view is perfect and the belief of others is inferior. Thus they enter into dispute; thus each of them says that his own opinion is true.
  11. If a view becomes worthless because it is censured by others, then no one will be distinguished because each one firmly regards another’s view as low whilst one’s own alone is regarded as true.
  12. Just as they honour their views, likewise they praise their ways. If all their views are true then their purity must also be peculiar to them.
  13. To the noble one there is no lead from others, nothing to embrace after investigation of views; he, therefore, has transcended disputation, for he does not see another’s view as the best.
  14. “I know and see, this is just so” - thus saying, some claim purity through that view. What is the point in saying that one has “seen” (the truth) if rival views are put forward.
  15. The man sees mind and matter and having seen he takes them as permanent. Let him see either much or little for experts do not say: “purity comes by that.”
  16. Not easy to discipline is the dogmatist who says this is the truth, being misguided by views: Saying that good is in such preconceptions, he is given to saying that purity is inherent as he has so seen.
  17. The noble one having perceived things through knowledge, does not enter into speculations. Having learnt of diverse theories that have arisen among others, he is indifferent to them whilst others labour to embrace them.
  18. The sage, being freed from worldly ties, remains peaceful among the restless. He is indifferent to sectarian squabbles, not embracing them whilst others remain attached.
  19. Having abandoned former defilements, not inducing new ones, not become partisan, he is free from dogmatic views. Being wise, he neither clings to the world nor blames himself.
  20. By overcoming all the theories based on seen, heard or thought he is a sage who has released his burden and is liberated, not imaginative in views, not aspiring for anything - so said the Buddha.
From the Suttanipāta, trnsln: Hammalawa Saddhatissa

Very, very nice!! :twothumbsup:

This should be pinned.

Often, when I post, a good portion of the time, if I investigate my motives, I feel a subtle sense of mischief, like the subtle feeling of very quietly laughing sadistically (a very quiet "Mwa ha ha ha! I will show this FOOL! I will make HIM angry! I will UPSET him! Ho ho ho!!"). I have to often stop and ask myself (often even after I've posted something), "Is what I'm saying good or helpful, or am I merely speaking mischeviously?"

It is so common on forums. It is the driving force behind their existence, I think, because I see it at every forum. It is so awful that some people will even blatantly contradict themselves. For example, in political discussions, a person might say Wikipedia isnt reliable, that a certain news organization, such as MSNBC or Fox News, isn't reliable... and then, not too long after this, they cite them as a source. So many people talk in order to argue. Virtually all human beings talk just to talk, the way a dog barks, but people who talk in order to argue are the worst of all.

Thank you for posting this, Ven. Pesala. Your posts on Dhammawheel have very much impressed me. :bow:
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