Siddhartha (novel) & Herman Hesse

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Re: Siddhartha (novel) & Herman Hesse

Postby Annapurna » Mon Jan 10, 2011 1:04 pm

Hanzze wrote:I have always believed, and I still believe, that whatever good or bad fortune may come our way we can always give it meaning and transform it into something of value.
Hermann Hesse

If you hate a person, you hate something in him that is part of yourself. What isn't part of ourselves doesn't disturb us.
Hermann Hesse

_/\_


I've always loved that quote, Hanzze! :hug:


Christopher, you are just amazing :-) I will call you "Chris the peacemaker", and you can nothing do against it :tongue:
Did anyone read the first quote of Chris the peacemaker?


Perhaps. Where is it?
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Re: Siddhartha (novel) & Herman Hesse

Postby alan » Tue Jan 11, 2011 5:01 am

If anyone has "The making of Buddhist modernism" handy, there is an interesting passage referring to Hesse's interpretation on page 228-232. Worth a read.
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Re: Siddhartha (novel) & Herman Hesse

Postby Hanzze » Tue Jan 11, 2011 6:34 am

Perhaps people like us cannot love. Ordinary people can - that is their secret.
Hermann Hesse
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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Re: Siddhartha (novel) & Herman Hesse

Postby ground » Tue Jan 11, 2011 6:35 am

alan wrote:If anyone has "The making of Buddhist modernism" handy, there is an interesting passage referring to Hesse's interpretation on page 228-232. Worth a read.


Could you elaborate ... very briefly?

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Re: Siddhartha (novel) & Herman Hesse

Postby Hanzze » Tue Jan 11, 2011 6:50 am

There's no reality except the one contained within us. That's why so many people live an unreal life. They take images outside them for reality and never allow the world within them to assert itself.
Hermann Hesse
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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Re: Siddhartha (novel) & Herman Hesse

Postby ground » Tue Jan 11, 2011 7:20 am

Hanzze wrote:There's no reality except the one contained within us. That's why so many people live an unreal life. They take images outside them for reality and never allow the world within them to assert itself.
Hermann Hesse


And in fantasizing about others' qualities and characteristics and thus fostering distraction you are following Hesse's footsteps?
Hesse was raised in a conservative christian environment, perhaps this motivated him. Christianity upholds saviours.



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Re: Siddhartha (novel) & Herman Hesse

Postby Annapurna » Tue Jan 11, 2011 8:41 am

alan wrote:If anyone has "The making of Buddhist modernism" handy, there is an interesting passage referring to Hesse's interpretation on page 228-232. Worth a read.


No, I don't.

:|
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Re: Siddhartha (novel) & Herman Hesse

Postby Annapurna » Tue Jan 11, 2011 8:58 am

TMingyur wrote:
Hanzze wrote:There's no reality except the one contained within us. That's why so many people live an unreal life. They take images outside them for reality and never allow the world within them to assert itself.
Hermann Hesse


And in fantasizing about others' qualities and characteristics and thus fostering distraction you are following Hesse's footsteps?
Hesse was raised in a conservative christian environment, perhaps this motivated him. Christianity upholds saviours.

Kind regards


I think he said that he finds "Siddharta" useful to understand Buddhism. He didn't even say in which way.

Plus, this quote doesn't seem to be from Siddharta.

When you say: in fantasising about others' qualities and characteristics and thus fostering distraction,

is that really necessarily bad and "fostering distraction"?

When I reflect upon the Buddhas qualities and characteristics, do I foster distraction? No, it is an inspiration for me.

Who knows if that isn't what Hanzze is doing, when he reflects upon Siddharta and Buddha? ;)

Hesse was raised in a conservative christian environment, perhaps this motivated him. Christianity upholds saviours.


And Buddha grew up in a Hindu environment. Perhaps this motivated him? :smile:

I'm not trying to dismiss what you said, -just adding some of my thoughts.

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Re: Siddhartha (novel) & Herman Hesse

Postby PeterB » Tue Jan 11, 2011 3:50 pm

There was no Hinduism at the time of the Buddha. Hinduism is a much later bringing together of various strands, some of them influenced by Buddhism but differing in asserting a reincarnating atta.
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Re: Siddhartha (novel) & Herman Hesse

Postby Hanzze » Tue Jan 11, 2011 6:38 pm

To study history means submitting to chaos and nevertheless retaining faith in order and meaning.
Hermann Hesse
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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Re: Siddhartha (novel) & Herman Hesse

Postby ground » Tue Jan 11, 2011 7:52 pm

Annapurna wrote:
TMingyur wrote:
Hanzze wrote:There's no reality except the one contained within us. That's why so many people live an unreal life. They take images outside them for reality and never allow the world within them to assert itself.
Hermann Hesse


And in fantasizing about others' qualities and characteristics and thus fostering distraction you are following Hesse's footsteps?
Hesse was raised in a conservative christian environment, perhaps this motivated him. Christianity upholds saviours.

Kind regards


I think he said that he finds "Siddharta" useful to understand Buddhism. He didn't even say in which way.

Plus, this quote doesn't seem to be from Siddharta.

When you say: in fantasising about others' qualities and characteristics and thus fostering distraction,

is that really necessarily bad and "fostering distraction"?

When I reflect upon the Buddhas qualities and characteristics, do I foster distraction? No, it is an inspiration for me.

Who knows if that isn't what Hanzze is doing, when he reflects upon Siddharta and Buddha? ;)


Invalid reply. Why do you neglect the context? Irrelevant whether Siddharta or not.

Hannze quoted Hesse.

The context is this:
Hanzze wrote:There's no reality except the one contained within us. That's why so many people live an unreal life. They take images outside them for reality and never allow the world within them to assert itself.
Hermann Hesse


This (the underlined) is what I call "fantasizing about others' qualities and characteristics" and if Hannze does the same (which may be the reason why he quotes this) then he is fostering distraction ... (if he considers himself a buddhist) and he is "following Hesse's footsteps".

Please note: "if" means conditional statement. Therefore the question above.

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Re: Siddhartha (novel) & Herman Hesse

Postby Annapurna » Tue Jan 11, 2011 8:21 pm

:shock:

wow. ;)

Reminded me of a school teacher I once had...

... :smile:
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Re: Siddhartha (novel) & Herman Hesse

Postby alan » Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:04 am

I'll try to summarize that tomorrow. Meanwhile, Thanissaro's book "purity of heart" has a typically brilliant essay which is relevant to this discussion. Couldn't find it at ATI, but here is an article from the tricycle archives which might fill in the background information. [url][/url] http://www.tricycle.com/feature/romancing-buddha?page=0,0
Read this first. Everyone needs background information before making assumptions about Hesse, and what, if anything, his book can tell us now.
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Re: Siddhartha (novel) & Herman Hesse

Postby ground » Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:38 am

Annapurna wrote::shock:

wow. ;)

Reminded me of a school teacher I once had...

... :smile:


Well posting actually is inseparable from textual analysis if one's post refers to something someone else has written. And yes, textual analysis is a subject in school that actually is very helpful especially in the context of buddhism and its texts.


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Re: Siddhartha (novel) & Herman Hesse

Postby Ben » Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:45 am

Probably time to re-engage with the topic?
Thanks for your cooperation.
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Re: Siddhartha (novel) & Herman Hesse

Postby Hanzze » Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:57 am

All men are prepared to accomplish the incredible if their ideals are threatened.
Hermann Hesse
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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Re: Siddhartha (novel) & Herman Hesse

Postby Kim OHara » Wed Jan 12, 2011 4:14 am

alan wrote:... an article from the tricycle archives which might fill in the background information. http://www.tricycle.com/feature/romancing-buddha?page=0,0

Thanks, Alan,
A good article. Joined a few dots for me!
:namaste:
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Re: Siddhartha (novel) & Herman Hesse

Postby Hanzze » Wed Jan 12, 2011 4:59 am

Some of us think holding on makes us strong; but sometimes it is letting go.
Hermann Hesse
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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Re: Siddhartha (novel) & Herman Hesse

Postby christopher::: » Wed Jan 12, 2011 7:51 am

alan wrote:Thanissaro's book "purity of heart" has a typically brilliant essay which is relevant to this discussion. Couldn't find it at ATI, but here is an article from the tricycle archives which might fill in the background information. [url][/url] http://www.tricycle.com/feature/romancing-buddha?page=0,0
Read this first. Everyone needs background information before making assumptions about Hesse, and what, if anything, his book can tell us now.



Wow! Spot on. This deserves it's own discussion thread, perhaps? I think Bikkhu made excellent points, but it's also not so simple as he described. There exists for example numerous versions of Buddhism in Asia that present the Dhamma and Buddha very differently from how they are viewed by the "meditating" traditions of Theravada, Zen and Tibetans. It's not such a simple distinction like Asian Buddhism is "pure" and will take you all the way while Western Buddhism is romantic or impure and shuts doors, imo.

Human cultures are very complicated...!
Last edited by christopher::: on Wed Jan 12, 2011 7:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009
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Re: Siddhartha (novel) & Herman Hesse

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Jan 12, 2011 7:53 am

christopher::: wrote:
alan wrote:Thanissaro's book "purity of heart" has a typically brilliant essay which is relevant to this discussion. Couldn't find it at ATI, but here is an article from the tricycle archives which might fill in the background information. [url][/url] http://www.tricycle.com/feature/romancing-buddha?page=0,0
Read this first. Everyone needs background information before making assumptions about Hesse, and what, if anything, his book can tell us now.



Wow! Spot on. This deserves it's own discussion thread, perhaps?
Well, don't talk about it. Do it.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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