Differences in Pali presentation of the 32 Body Parts

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Differences in Pali presentation of the 32 Body Parts

Postby Bunjers » Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:06 pm

Recently I've been looking into the Reflection on the Thirty-Two Body Parts after coming across this post.
Thanks Cittasanto for pointing out this resource. I think Bob Stahl's Dhamma Talks are fantastic (see the resources section on http://www.32parts.com)

Anyway, I wrote down the list that Bob Stahl chants in his presentation of the practice. You can find it here on my scribd page.

And I compared it with the Forest Sangha Chant Book chant and the chant in Bh. Gunaratana's Bhavana Vandana

Correct me if I'm wrong. Here are the main differences:

The Bob Stahl version places brains (Matthaluṅgan) after faeces (Karīsaṃ)
Bhavana Vadana omits the brains
The Forest Sangha book places the brains at the end of the list.

Kilomakaṃ is translated as diaphragm in the Bob Stahl version
it is translated pleura in the Bhavana Vandana version
it is translated membranes in the Forest Sangha version

Udariyaṃ is translated stomach in the Bob Stahl version
it is translated undigested food in the stomach in the Bhavana Vandana version
it is translated undigested food in the Forest Sangha version.

I suspect since it's an ancient language the exact meaning of these words may be a little fuzzy. Hence the differences in translation. Doesn't really matter I suppose as long as you do the practice and it's efficacious :D I just found it interesting
Last edited by Bunjers on Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Differences in Pali presentation of the 32 Body Parts

Postby gavesako » Thu Nov 15, 2012 6:28 pm

"Brain" was added later in the commentaries, it was not part of the list at the time of the Buddha it seems. It just shows the importance of these body parts according to the ancient Ayurveda in India. The fact that "brain" was placed after "excrement" probably indicates the relative value attributed to them. Obviously the book Buddha's Brain was not a bestseller at that time yet...
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Re: Differences in Pali presentation of the 32 Body Parts

Postby Cittasanto » Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:25 pm

Hi Bunjers,

The Brain as pointed out is a later addition, and if memory serves (I will check my notes and correct later if neccesary) the commentaries say the brain is included with bone marrow in the original list.

Kilomakam is more likely to either be the "diaphragm" or in general "membranes". Pleura is a membrane that essentially encompases the chest cavity (pleura cavity) and I doubt it is that and have opted for Diaphragm myself.

Udariyam I believe is more likely to be the stomach, I do not see why the organ would of been left out, yet the content be in (unless it meant both) but this seams doubtful for me also as the stomach can also be empty. so its inclusion would be (in my opinion) be with faeces and not connected with the stomach.
just my opinion though.

(now to work on the Kelisas for praise ;) LOL)

P.S. I am working on my own version of the websites descriptions and would welcome any input in the parts already shared. the info is essentially taken from Wiki and the 32parts.com site, and I am going to spend time collating information on each part. http://cittasanto.weebly.com/32-parts-o ... heets.html
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
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Re: Differences in Pali presentation of the 32 Body Parts

Postby Sekha » Thu Nov 15, 2012 10:36 pm

It seems that the original list did not mean to be exhaustive, but it has been considered later on that it should be. Hence adding the brain, but there are a lot more things that could be added to the list. As stated above, I think it is merely a list of repulsive body contents people of that time would easily know of.
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Re: Differences in Pali presentation of the 32 Body Parts

Postby Cittasanto » Thu Nov 15, 2012 11:13 pm

Sekha wrote:It seems that the original list did not mean to be exhaustive, but it has been considered later on that it should be. Hence adding the brain, but there are a lot more things that could be added to the list. As stated above, I think it is merely a list of repulsive body contents people of that time would easily know of.

It is worth noting the sexual organs are not included probably as it was a neutral human body being taught. so there are two possibilities here, 1- this is a full and complete list for general use, and the brain was understood at the time as marrow? or 2- additions could be incorporated to focus and undermine pride or lust?
I vote both
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"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
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Re: Differences in Pali presentation of the 32 Body Parts

Postby Sekha » Thu Nov 15, 2012 11:24 pm

I think the only aim is to realize the foulness of the body by recollecting how many parts of it are disgusting. There is no need to be exhaustive. In this case, I don't see any reason to consider the "original" teaching as to be corrected either.
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Re: Differences in Pali presentation of the 32 Body Parts

Postby theY » Sat Nov 17, 2012 1:47 pm

Hi Bunjers and dear all,

Matthaluṅgaṃ ignore in normal suttas, include suttantanaya in abhidhamma.
Matthaluṅgaṃ appear at the end of pathavī-dhātus, 19 pre-parts, at dvattiṅsākārapaṭha in kuddakapāṭha.
Matthaluṅgaṃ appear at the end of all dhātus, 31 parts, at paṭisambhidāmagga.

Matthaluṅgaṃ came from tipitaka and appear in vinayapiṭaka, kuddakapāṭha, suttanipāta, and paṭisambhidāmagga, but it isn't direct reference shown it came directly from buddha.

I think it came from buddha pass to sāriputta-school, because it appear at first saṅgāyanā but just in kuddakanikāya at pakaraṇas that most relate to sariputta-school (kuddakapātha, suttanipāta, and paṭisambhidāmagga).

Commentary gave the reason like science about "31 body parts" case, that it include into matthaluṅgaṃ.

I recommend to use by your habitude, if you have memorized whatever before.

If you haven't meditate on it at all, I recommend to use follow kuddakapāṭha, that matthaluṅgaṃ placed at end of 19 pre-parts, because this book is wrote directly for the beginner.

------------------------------------------------------

You should determine them yourself by below. The translators always use below origin to find out "32 Body Parts" meaning.

Kilomakaṃ.
[Midriff]*
115. This is the covering of the flesh, which is of two kinds, namely, the concealed
and the unconcealed. As to colour, both kinds are white, the colour of dukúla
(muslin) rags. As to shape, it is the shape of its location. As to direction, the
concealed midriff lies in the upper direction, the other in both directions. As to
location, the concealed midriff is to be found concealing the heart and kidney;
the unconcealed is to be found covering the flesh under the inner skin throughout
the whole body. As to delimitation, it is bounded below by the flesh, above by the
inner skin, and all round by what appertains to midriff ...

*Kilomaka—“midriff”: the rendering is obviously quite inadequate for what is
described here, but there is no appropriate English word.


http://books.google.co.th/books?id=B_UW ... &q&f=false

Udariyaṃ.
[Gorge]
120. This is what has been eaten, drunk, chewed and tasted, and is present in the
stomach. As to colour, it is the colour of swallowed food. As to shape, it is the shape of
rice loosely tied in a cloth strainer. As to direction, it is in the upper direction. As to
location, it is in the stomach.
121. What is called the “stomach” is [a part of] the bowel-membrane, which is
like the swelling [of air] produced in the middle of a length of wet cloth when it
is being [twisted and] wrung out from the two ends. It is smooth outside. Inside,
it is like a balloon of cloth* soiled by wrapping up meat refuse; or it can be said
to be like the inside of the skin of a rotten jack fruit. It is the place where worms
dwell seething in tangles: the thirty-two families of worms, such as round worms,
boil-producing worms, “palm-splinter” worms, needle-mouthed worms, tape-
worms, thread worms, and the rest**. When there is no food and drink, [259] etc.,
present, they leap up shrieking and pounce upon the heart’s flesh; and when
food and drink, etc., are swallowed, they wait with uplifted mouths and scramble
to snatch the first two or three lumps swallowed. It is these worms’ maternity
home, privy, hospital and charnel ground. Just as when it has rained heavily in
a time of drought and what has been carried by the water into the cesspit at the
gate of an outcaste village—the various kinds of ordure*** such as urine, excrement,
bits of hide and bones and sinews, as well as spittle, snot, blood, etc.—gets
mixed up with the mud and water already collected there; and after two or three
days the families of worms appear, and it ferments, warmed by the energy of the
sun’s heat, frothing and bubbling on the top, quite black in colour, and so utterly
stinking and loathsome that one can scarcely go near it or look at it, much less
smell or taste it, so too, [the stomach is where] the assortment of food, drink, etc.,
falls after being pounded up by the tongue and stuck together with spittle and
saliva, losing at that moment its virtues of colour, smell, taste, etc., and taking on
the appearance of weavers’ paste and dogs’ vomit, then to get soused in the bile
and phlegm and wind that have collected there, where it ferments with the
energy of the stomach-fire’s heat, seethes with the families of worms, frothing
and bubbling on the top, till it turns into utterly stinking nauseating muck, even
to hear about which takes away any appetite for food, drink, etc., let alone to see
it with the eye of understanding. And when the food, drink, etc., fall into it, they
get divided into five parts: the worms eat one part, the stomach-fire bums up
another part, another part becomes urine, another part becomes excrement, and
one part is turned into nourishment and sustains the blood, flesh and so on.
122. As to delimitation, it is bounded by the stomach lining and by what
appertains to gorge ...

*Maísaka-sambupali-veþhana-kiliþþha-pávára-pupphaka-sadisa: this is rendered into
Sinhalese by kuóu mas kasa¿a velu porõná kaðek pup (“an inflated piece (or bag) of cloth,
which has wrapped rotten meat refuse”). In PED pávára is given as “cloak, mantle”
and (this ref.) as “the mango tree”; but there seems to be no authority for the rendering
“mango tree,” which has nothing to do with this context. Pupphaka (balloon) is not in
PED (cf. common Burmese spelling of bubbu¿a (bubble) as pupphu¿a).

**It would be a mistake to take the renderings of these worms’ names too literally.
Gaóðuppada (boil-producing worm?) appears only as “earth worm” in PED, which will
not do here. The more generally accepted reading seems to take paþatantuka and
suttaka (tape-worm and thread-worm) as two kinds rather than paþatantusuttaka; neither
is in PED.

***Kuóapa—“ordure”; PED only gives the meaning “corpse,” which does not fit the
meaning either here or, e.g., at XI.21, where the sense of a dead body is inappropriate.



http://books.google.co.th/books?id=B_UW ... &q&f=false

Metta.
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Lesson Relationship of Abhidhammatthasaṅgaha (10/31/2012)
http://tipitakanews.org/en/node/61
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