AN5.113: Sammāsamādhi Sutta (On Tolerance)

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Kumara
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AN5.113: Sammāsamādhi Sutta (On Tolerance)

Postby Kumara » Wed May 21, 2014 6:16 am

I'd like to offer this for discussion here, besides inviting comments on the translation:

“pañcahi, bhikkhave, dhammehi samannāgato bhikkhu abhabbo sammāsamādhiṁ upasampajja viharituṁ. katamehi pañcahi? idha, bhikkhave, bhikkhu akkhamo hoti rūpānaṁ, akkhamo saddānaṁ, akkhamo gandhānaṁ, akkhamo rasānaṁ, akkhamo phoṭṭhabbānaṁ. imehi kho, bhikkhave, pañcahi dhammehi samannāgato bhikkhu abhabbo sammāsamādhiṁ upasampajja viharituṁ.

"Bhikkhus, possessed of five things a bhikkhu is unable to live engaging in proper composure (sammāsamādhi). What five? Here, a bhikkhu is intolerant of (visual) forms, intolerant of sounds, intolerant of odours, intolerant of tastes, intolerant of touchables. Possessed with these five things a bhikkhu is unable to live engaging in proper composure."
“pañcahi, bhikkhave, dhammehi samannāgato bhikkhu bhabbo sammāsamādhiṁ upasampajja viharituṁ. katamehi pañcahi? idha, bhikkhave, bhikkhu khamo hoti rūpānaṁ, khamo saddānaṁ, khamo gandhānaṁ, khamo rasānaṁ, khamo phoṭṭhabbānaṁ. imehi kho, bhikkhave, pañcahi dhammehi samannāgato bhikkhu bhabbo sammāsamādhiṁ upasampajja viharitun”ti.

"Bhikkhus, possessed of five things a bhikkhu is able to live engaging in proper composure. What five? Here, a bhikkhu is tolerant of (visual) forms, tolerant of sounds, tolerant of odours, tolerant of tastes, tolerant of touchables. Possessed with these five things a bhikkhu is able to live engaging in proper composure."

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Re: AN5.113: Sammāsamādhi Sutta (On Tolerance)

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Wed May 21, 2014 6:36 am

For (visual) forms, I would use the more straightforward "sights."

"Touchables" is awkward, but "contacts" is not quite right. Perhaps "touches" would be best. It does not refer only to physical contact with external objects, but also to internal sensations such as stiffness in the limbs, hunger, etc.
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Re: AN5.113: Sammāsamādhi Sutta (On Tolerance)

Postby Mkoll » Wed May 21, 2014 7:44 am

Thanks for sharing. Any alternate translations of the Pali word for "tolerant/intolerant", khamo I think?
Peace,
James

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Re: AN5.113: Sammāsamādhi Sutta (On Tolerance)

Postby TheNoBSBuddhist » Wed May 21, 2014 9:27 am

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:For (visual) forms, I would use the more straightforward "sights."

"Touchables" is awkward, but "contacts" is not quite right. Perhaps "touches" would be best. It does not refer only to physical contact with external objects, but also to internal sensations such as stiffness in the limbs, hunger, etc.



Maybe "sensed"....?
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Re: AN5.113: Sammāsamādhi Sutta (On Tolerance)

Postby Kumara » Wed May 21, 2014 9:31 am

Thanks for helping, bhante.
Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:For (visual) forms, I would use the more straightforward "sights."

Meaning-wise, it can work, but there are too many meanings for "sight" for my liking. Using this can meaning "seeing", rather the seen.

"Touchables" is awkward, but "contacts" is not quite right. Perhaps "touches" would be best. It does not refer only to physical contact with external objects, but also to internal sensations such as stiffness in the limbs, hunger, etc.

I know... I was experimenting. OK, off with "touchables".
"Touches"? Also too many meanings for my liking.

"Tangibles"? This seems to relate better with internal sensations.
How about "physical sensations"?

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Re: AN5.113: Sammāsamādhi Sutta (On Tolerance)

Postby Kumara » Wed May 21, 2014 9:31 am

TheNoBSBuddhist wrote:
Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:For (visual) forms, I would use the more straightforward "sights."

"Touchables" is awkward, but "contacts" is not quite right. Perhaps "touches" would be best. It does not refer only to physical contact with external objects, but also to internal sensations such as stiffness in the limbs, hunger, etc.

Maybe "sensed"....?

That would be closer to phuṭṭha.

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Re: AN5.113: Sammāsamādhi Sutta (On Tolerance)

Postby Kumara » Wed May 21, 2014 9:33 am

Forget "tangibles". It already has the meaning of "tangible things".

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Re: AN5.113: Sammāsamādhi Sutta (On Tolerance)

Postby santa100 » Wed May 21, 2014 1:41 pm

Ven. Bodhi's translation:
Bhikkhus, possessing five qualities, a bhikkhu is incapable of entering and dwelling in right concentration. What five? Here, a bhikkhu cannot patiently endure forms, sounds, odors, tastes, and tactile objects. Possessing these five qualities, a bhikkhu is incapable of entering and dwelling in right concentration.

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Re: AN5.113: Sammāsamādhi Sutta (On Tolerance)

Postby Kumara » Thu May 22, 2014 1:56 am

Mkoll wrote:Thanks for sharing. Any alternate translations of the Pali word for "tolerant/intolerant", khamo I think?

Do you think it's unsuitable?

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Re: AN5.113: Sammāsamādhi Sutta (On Tolerance)

Postby Mkoll » Thu May 22, 2014 6:34 am

No, it makes sense. And Ven. Bodhi's "patiently endure" makes it more clear.
Peace,
James


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