Pali word of the day

[Anicca]

Is it the Thai dialect that does tom-mah for dhama? Should it be dom-mah? Buddho = Boo-doe or bood-hoe

[David N. Snyder]

Is it the Thai dialect that does tom-mah for dhama? Should it be dom-mah? Buddho = Boo-doe or bood-hoe

I don't know. I think it is just DHA - MMA. I'm not familiar with the Thai dialects.

Maybe Dukkhanirodha, Kare, or one of the other Pali experts would know for sure.

[mikenz66]

b = b as in bat; not p

Gotcha! i've got a Thai friend that uses the Thai throaty 'ph' for 'bh' and to me his 'b' sounds like a 'p'.

bhagavā - buddho
bah-guh-wah and boo-toe works?

If I could add something...

That's what I tend to hear at the Wat too. The thing is, for a native English speaker the bh, which is an aspirated b, tends to sound like a "p" because in English most"b" sounds (as in "bet") are unaspirated and most "p" sounds (as in "paw") are aspirated. So we tend to associate the aspiration, or lack, with p and b respectively.

Asian languages like Thai has aspirated and unaspirated versions, i.e. b, bh, p, ph. It's not easy for me to tell the difference. The Thai word for "spicy" is pronounced "pet" (unaspirated p) which is hard to distinguish from "bet" (unaspirated b), which means "duck".

Same problem with t, th, d, dh....

Mike

[PeterB]

To my crude western ears " Buddho" as pronounced by a Thai sounds like " Puddho" which is somehow endearing..

[Sekha]

Indriya
(From The Dhamma Encyclopedia)

Indriya: 'abilities', is a name for 22, partly physical, partly mental, phenomena often treated in the Suttas as well as in the Abhidhamma. They are:
6 Bases āyatana :
1. eye: cakkhu 2. ear: sota 3. nose: ghāna 4. tongue: jivhā 5. body: kāya 6. mind: mano
Gender bhava :
7. femininity: itthi 8. masculinity: purisa 9. vitality: jīvita
5 Feelings vedanā q. v.
10. bodily pleasant feeling: sukha 11. bodily pain: dukkha 12. gladness: somanassa 13. sadness: domanassa 14. indifference: upekkhā
5 Spiritual Abilities see: bala
15. faith: saddhā 16. energy: viriya 17. awareness or mindfulness:sati 18. concentration:samādhi 19. understanding: paññā
3 supra-mundane Abilities
20. the assurance: 'I shall know what I did not yet know!': aññātañ-ñassāmīt' indriya 21. the ability of highest knowledge: aññindriya 22. the ability of him who knows: aññātāvindriya
1-5, 7-8 are physical; 9 is either physical or mental. All the rest are mental. - 14 see: upekkhā is here merely indifferent feeling = adukkha-m-asukhā vedanā i.e. 'neither pleasant nor unpleasant feeling' and not identical with that highly ethical state of equanimity = tatramajjhattatā i.e. 'keeping everywhere the middle', the equipoise of mind, also called upekkhā which belongs to the group of mental constructions sankhāra-khandha see: Tab II. - 20 arises at the moment of entering the Sotāpatti-path sotāpatti-magga 21 on reaching the Sotāpatti-Fruition sotāpatti-phala 22 at attaining the Arahat-Fruition arahatta-phala For the three last, see: ariya-puggala
The abilities, excepting 7 and 8, form one of the 24 conditions paccaya 6.
In Vibh. V all these abilities are treated in the above order, whereas see: XLVIII enumerates and explains them by way of the above indicated groups, leaving only 20-22 unexplained. See Vis XVI

[David N. Snyder]

Upādāna

'clinging', 'attachment', according to Vis.M XVII, is an intensified degree of craving tanhā. The 4 kinds of clinging are: sense-clinging kāmupādāna, clinging to views ditthupādāna clinging to mere rules and ritual sīlabbatupādāna, clinging to the personality-belief atta-vādupādāna.

1;What now is the sense-clinging? Whatever with regard to sense-objects there exists of sense-lust, sense-desire, sense-attachment, sense-passion, sense-confusedness, sense-mental chains: this is called sense-clinging.

2 What is the clinging to views? 'Food and offerings are useless; there is no fruit and result for good and bad deeds: all such view and wrong conceptions are called the clinging to views.

3;What is the clinging to mere rules and ritual? The holding firmly to the view that through mere rules and ritual one may reach purification: this is called the clinging to mere rules and ritual.

4;What is the clinging to the personality-belief? The 20 kinds of ego-views with regard to the groups of existence see: sakkāya-ditthi these are called the clinging to the personality-belief; Dhs. 1214-17.

This traditional fourfold division of clinging is not quite satisfactory. Besides kamupādāna we should expect either rūpupādāna and arūpupādāna or simply bhavupādāna Though the Anāgāmī is entirely free from the traditional 4 kinds of upādāna he is not freed from rebirth, as he still possesses bhavupādāna The Com. to Vis.M XVII, in trying to get out of this dilemma, explains kāmupādāna as including here all the remaining kinds of clinging.

Clinging' is the common rendering for u., though 'grasping' would come closer to the literal meaning of it, which is 'uptake'; see: Three Cardinal Discourses WHEEL 17, p.19.

[David N. Snyder]

Bhava

'becoming', 'process of existence', consists of 3 planes: sense-existence kāma-bhava, fine-material existence rūpa-bhava, immaterial existence arūpa-bhava. Cf. loka.

The whole process of existence may be divided into two aspects:

1. Kamma-making kamma-bhava, i.e. the kammically active side of existence, being the cause of rebirth and consisting in advantageous and disadvantageous intentional actions. See Kamma, paticca-samuppāda IX.
2. Kamma-produced rebirth, or regenerating process uppattibhava, i.e. the kammically passive side of existence consisting in the arising and developing of the kamma-produced and therefore morally neutral mental and bodily phenomena of existence. Cf. Tab. - App..

Bhāva: feminine and masculine 'nature', refers to the sexual characteristics of the body, and belongs to the group of materiality see: khandha. It is a commentarial term for the abilities of femininity and masculinity, see Indirya (above).

[David N. Snyder]

Jāti

'birth', comprises the entire embryonic process beginning with conception and ending with parturition.

The birth of beings belonging to this or that order of beings, their being born, their conception okkanti and springing into existence, the manifestation of the groups materiality, feeling, perception, mental constructions, consciousness; the acquiring of their sensitive organs: this is called birth.

[Sekha]

Here is the formula for undertaking the first pancasila:

Pānātipātā veramanī sikkhāpadam samādiyāmi

Pānātipātā
pana = Skt. [Sanskrit] prana - life breath
ati + pat = attack
pat from patati - to fly, to fall. (From this, Latin praepes - quick, peto - to go for, impetus, attack, etc.) To fall, jump, fall down on.
Panatipata = to cause prana to fall; to attack life breath.

veramanī
abstinence

sikkhāpadam
training rule, moral precept

samādiyāmi
undertake

[PeterB]

I favour "rule of training " which has the sense of a process rather than a static "rule"..

[Sekha]

I favour "rule of training " which has the sense of a process rather than a static "rule"..

pāda: foot
pādaka: foundation or a basis
sikkhā: study; discipline
sikkhana: learning; training

so "foundation for the training" should be appropriate

I think there is indeed the idea - not of being static - but of stability. Once one adopted completely the rule it becomes stable and strong, so that the training can begin on this basis.

_/\_

[PeterB]

I favour "rule of training " which has the sense of a process rather than a static "rule"..

pāda: foot
pādaka: foundation or a basis
sikkhā: study; discipline
sikkhana: learning; training

so "foundation for the training" should be appropriate

I think there is indeed the idea - not of being static - but of stability. Once one adopted completely the rule it becomes stable and strong, so that the training can begin on this basis.

_/\_

Interesting...

[PeterB]

Upādāna

'clinging', 'attachment', according to Vis.M XVII, is an intensified degree of craving tanhā. The 4 kinds of clinging are: sense-clinging kāmupādāna, clinging to views ditthupādāna clinging to mere rules and ritual sīlabbatupādāna, clinging to the personality-belief atta-vādupādāna.

1;What now is the sense-clinging? Whatever with regard to sense-objects there exists of sense-lust, sense-desire, sense-attachment, sense-passion, sense-confusedness, sense-mental chains: this is called sense-clinging.

2 What is the clinging to views? 'Food and offerings are useless; there is no fruit and result for good and bad deeds: all such view and wrong conceptions are called the clinging to views.

3;What is the clinging to mere rules and ritual? The holding firmly to the view that through mere rules and ritual one may reach purification: this is called the clinging to mere rules and ritual.

4;What is the clinging to the personality-belief? The 20 kinds of ego-views with regard to the groups of existence see: sakkāya-ditthi these are called the clinging to the personality-belief; Dhs. 1214-17.

This traditional fourfold division of clinging is not quite satisfactory. Besides kamupādāna we should expect either rūpupādāna and arūpupādāna or simply bhavupādāna Though the Anāgāmī is entirely free from the traditional 4 kinds of upādāna he is not freed from rebirth, as he still possesses bhavupādāna The Com. to Vis.M XVII, in trying to get out of this dilemma, explains kāmupādāna as including here all the remaining kinds of clinging.

Clinging' is the common rendering for u., though 'grasping' would come closer to the literal meaning of it, which is 'uptake'; see: Three Cardinal Discourses WHEEL 17, p.19.

It is not clear to me how the literal meaning would compute..I realise that is why we normally find the translations "clinging" or "grasping".."uptake" seems odd. The usual modern Englishusage is as in the number of places filled in a new degree course.."the uptake is 78 % " for example..I cant quite get my head around in usage in this context..any offers anyone ?

[Anicca]

any offers anyone ?

The Three Cardinal Discourses (WHEEL 17) offers:

CLINGING: an unsatisfactory and inadequate, but accepted rendering for the Pali upadana. The word means literally "taking up" (upa plus adana; compare the Latin assumere from ad plus sumere.) By first metaphor it is used for the assumption and consumption that satisfies craving and produces existence. As such it is the condition sine qua non for being. What is consumed (or assumed) is the categories (q.v.). The word "clinging" has to represent this meaning. Clinging's ending is nibbana.

from this it seems that uptake may be literally appropriate for taking up / upa + adana, but not for the everyday english usage of uptake.

hope this helps
metta

[David N. Snyder]

Somewhat related:

āsajjana

attachment

[PeterB]

any offers anyone ?

The Three Cardinal Discourses (WHEEL 17) offers:

CLINGING: an unsatisfactory and inadequate, but accepted rendering for the Pali upadana. The word means literally "taking up" (upa plus adana; compare the Latin assumere from ad plus sumere.) By first metaphor it is used for the assumption and consumption that satisfies craving and produces existence. As such it is the condition sine qua non for being. What is consumed (or assumed) is the categories (q.v.). The word "clinging" has to represent this meaning. Clinging's ending is nibbana.

from this it seems that uptake may be literally appropriate for taking up / upa + adana, but not for the everyday english usage of uptake.

hope this helps
metta

It does help thank you Anicca.."clinging" does not quite cover upadana does it seems to have some of the qualities of clinging but with less passive implications also of "grasping".

[David N. Snyder]

Jarāmaraṇa

Decay; in Sanskrit and Pāli, also for "old age" (jarā) and "death" (maraṇa). It refers to the inevitable end-of-life suffering of all beings prior to their rebirth in the cycle of saṃsāra.

[David N. Snyder]

Sankhāra

This term has, according to its context, different shades of meaning, which should be carefully distinguished.

I To its most frequent usages see: foll. 1-4 the general term 'construction' may be applied, with the qualifications required by the context. This term may refer either to the act of 'forming or to the passive state of 'having been formed' or to both.

1. As the 2nd link of the formula of Dependent Origination, paticcasamuppāda, sankhāra has the active aspect, 'forming, and signifies kamma, i.e. advantageous or disadvantageous intentional activity cetanā of body kāya-s speech vacī-s or mind citta or mano-s This definition occurs, e.g. at S. XII, 2, 27. For s.: in this sense, the word 'kamma-construction' has been coined by the author. In other passages, in the same context, s. is defined by reference to a meritorious kammic-constructions puññ'ābhisankhāra b disadvantageous k. apuññ'abhisankhāra c imperturbable k. āneñj'ābhisankhāra e.g. in S. XII, 51; D. 33. This threefold division covers kammic activity in all spheres of existence: the meritorious kammic-constructions extend to the sense-and the fine-material sphere, the disadvantageous ones only to the sense-sphere, and the 'imperturbable' only to the immaterial sphere.

2. The aforementioned three terms, kāya, vacī- and citta-s are sometimes used in quite a different sense, namely as 1 bodily function, i.e. in-and-out-breathing e.g. M. 10, 2 verbal function, i.e. thought-conception and discursive thinking, 3 mental-function, i.e. feeling and perception e.g. M. 44. See nirodhasamāpatti.

3. It also denotes the 4th group of existence sankhāra-khandha and includes all 'mental constructions' whether they belong to 'kammically forming' consciousness or not. See khandha Tab. II. and S. XXII, 56, 79.

4. It occurs further in the sense of anything formed sankhata and conditioned, and includes all things whatever in the world, all phenomena of existence. This meaning applies, e.g. to the well-known passage,;All constructions are impermanent... subject to suffering; sabbe sankhāra aniccā dukkhā In that context, however, s. is subordinate to the still wider and all-embracing term dhamma thing; for dhamma includes also the Unformed or Unconditioned Element asankhata-dhātu i.e. Nibbāna e.g. in sabbe, dhammā all things are without a self;.

II sankhāra also means sometimes 'intentional effort', e.g. in the formula of the roads to power iddhi-pāda, in sasankhāra and asankhāra-parinibbāyī see: anāgāmī, and in the Abhidhamma terms asankhārika and sasankhārika-citta i.e. without effort = spontaneously, and with effort = prompted.

In Western literature, in English as well as in German, sankhāra is sometimes mistranslated by 'subconscious latent tendencies' or similarly e.g Prof Beckh:,unterbewußte Bildekräfte,; i.e. subconscious formative forces. This misinterpretation derives perhaps from a similar usage in non-Buddhist Sanskrit literature, and is entirely inapplicable to the connotations of the term in Pāli Buddhism, as listed above under I, 1-4. For instance, within the dependent origination, s. is neither subconscious nor a mere tendency, but is a fully conscious and active kammic intention. In the context of the 5 groups of existence see: above I, 3, a very few of the factors from the group of mental constructions sankhāra-khandha are also present as properties of subconsciousness, but are of course not restricted to it, nor are they mere latent tendencies.

[Sekha]

[David N. Snyder]

:thumbsup:

Here we are on page 7 and we just now get to sankhāra. I think that is just another indication of how many very important Pali words and terms there are to know and study. In all of the previous pages and posts, we did not get to sankhāra until page 7.