Pali Term: Paṭiccasamuppāda

Explore the ancient language of the Tipitaka and Theravāda commentaries

Moderator: Mahavihara moderator

User avatar
Dmytro
Posts: 1448
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 7:24 pm
Location: Kyiv, Ukraine
Contact:

Pali Term: Paṭiccasamuppāda

Postby Dmytro » Thu Oct 14, 2010 7:15 pm



User avatar
Dmytro
Posts: 1448
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 7:24 pm
Location: Kyiv, Ukraine
Contact:

Re: Pali Term: Paṭiccasamuppāda

Postby Dmytro » Thu Oct 14, 2010 7:21 pm

A definitive sutta on this subject:

Paccayasuttaṃ

20. Sāvatthiyaṃ viharati…pe… ‘‘paṭiccasamuppādañca vo, bhikkhave, desessāmi paṭiccasamuppanne ca dhamme. Taṃ suṇātha, sādhukaṃ manasi karotha, bhāsissāmī’’ti. ‘‘Evaṃ, bhante’’ti kho te bhikkhū bhagavato paccassosuṃ. Bhagavā etadavoca –

‘‘Katamo ca, bhikkhave, paṭiccasamuppādo? Jātipaccayā, bhikkhave, jarāmaraṇaṃ. Uppādā vā tathāgatānaṃ anuppādā vā tathāgatānaṃ, ṭhitāva sā dhātu dhammaṭṭhitatā dhammaniyāmatā idappaccayatā. Taṃ tathāgato abhisambujjhati abhisameti. Abhisambujjhitvā abhisametvā ācikkhati deseti paññāpeti paṭṭhapeti vivarati vibhajati uttānīkaroti. ‘Passathā’ti cāha – ‘jātipaccayā, bhikkhave, jarāmaraṇaṃ’’’.

‘‘Bhavapaccayā, bhikkhave, jāti…pe… upādānapaccayā, bhikkhave, bhavo… taṇhāpaccayā, bhikkhave, upādānaṃ… vedanāpaccayā, bhikkhave, taṇhā… phassapaccayā, bhikkhave, vedanā… saḷāyatanapaccayā, bhikkhave, phasso… nāmarūpapaccayā, bhikkhave, saḷāyatanaṃ… viññāṇapaccayā, bhikkhave, nāmarūpaṃ… saṅkhārapaccayā, bhikkhave, viññāṇaṃ… avijjāpaccayā, bhikkhave, saṅkhārā uppādā vā tathāgatānaṃ anuppādā vā tathāgatānaṃ, ṭhitāva sā dhātu dhammaṭṭhitatā dhammaniyāmatā idappaccayatā. Taṃ tathāgato abhisambujjhati abhisameti. Abhisambujjhitvā abhisametvā ācikkhati deseti paññāpeti paṭṭhapeti vivarati vibhajati uttānīkaroti. ‘Passathā’ti cāha ‘avijjāpaccayā, bhikkhave, saṅkhārā’. Iti kho, bhikkhave, yā tatra tathatā avitathatā anaññathatā idappaccayatā – ayaṃ vuccati, bhikkhave, paṭiccasamuppādo.

‘‘Katame ca, bhikkhave, paṭiccasamuppannā dhammā? Jarāmaraṇaṃ, bhikkhave, aniccaṃ saṅkhataṃ paṭiccasamuppannaṃ khayadhammaṃ vayadhammaṃ virāgadhammaṃ nirodhadhammaṃ. Jāti, bhikkhave, aniccā saṅkhatā paṭiccasamuppannā khayadhammā vayadhammā virāgadhammā nirodhadhammā. Bhavo, bhikkhave, anicco saṅkhato paṭiccasamuppanno khayadhammo vayadhammo virāgadhammo nirodhadhammo. Upādānaṃ bhikkhave…pe… taṇhā, bhikkhave… vedanā, bhikkhave… phasso, bhikkhave… saḷāyatanaṃ, bhikkhave… nāmarūpaṃ, bhikkhave… viññāṇaṃ, bhikkhave… saṅkhārā, bhikkhave… avijjā, bhikkhave, aniccā saṅkhatā paṭiccasamuppannā khayadhammā vayadhammā virāgadhammā nirodhadhammā. Ime vuccanti, bhikkhave, paṭiccasamuppannā dhammā.

‘‘Yato kho, bhikkhave, ariyasāvakassa ‘ayañca paṭiccasamuppādo, ime ca paṭiccasamuppannā dhammā’ yathābhūtaṃ sammappaññāya sudiṭṭhā honti, so vata pubbantaṃ vā paṭidhāvissati – ‘ahosiṃ nu kho ahaṃ [nu khvāhaṃ (syā. kaṃ. pī. ka.)] atītamaddhānaṃ, nanu kho ahosiṃ atītamaddhānaṃ, kiṃ nu kho ahosiṃ atītamaddhānaṃ, kathaṃ nu kho ahosiṃ atītamaddhānaṃ, kiṃ hutvā kiṃ ahosiṃ nu kho ahaṃ atītamaddhāna’nti; aparantaṃ vā upadhāvissati [apadhāvissati (ka.)] – ‘bhavissāmi nu kho ahaṃ anāgatamaddhānaṃ, nanu kho bhavissāmi anāgatamaddhānaṃ, kiṃ nu kho bhavissāmi anāgatamaddhānaṃ, kathaṃ nu kho bhavissāmi anāgatamaddhānaṃ, kiṃ hutvā kiṃ bhavissāmi nu kho ahaṃ anāgatamaddhāna’nti; etarahi vā paccuppannaṃ addhānaṃ ajjhattaṃ kathaṃkathī bhavissati – ‘ahaṃ nu khosmi, no nu khosmi, kiṃ nu khosmi, kathaṃ nu khosmi, ayaṃ nu kho satto kuto āgato, so kuhiṃ gamissatī’ti – netaṃ ṭhānaṃ vijjati. Taṃ kissa hetu? Tathāhi, bhikkhave, ariyasāvakassa ayañca paṭiccasamuppādo ime ca paṭiccasamuppannā dhammā yathābhūtaṃ sammappaññāya sudiṭṭhā’’ti.

S ii 25


User avatar
Dmytro
Posts: 1448
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 7:24 pm
Location: Kyiv, Ukraine
Contact:

Re: Pali Term: Paṭiccasamuppāda

Postby Dmytro » Thu Oct 14, 2010 7:39 pm

The word implied in this compound is 'paccaya' - (requisite) condition.

"Yaṃ yadeva, bhikkhave, paccayaṃ paṭicca uppajjati viññāṇaṃ, tena teneva viññāṇaṃtveva saṅkhyaṃ gacchati"

M i 258

As for 'pa.ticca', I think the most exact translation would be 'conditioned', as in:

conditioned reflex: an acquired response that is under the control of (conditional on the occurrence of) a stimulus.

'Dependent' is too vague for the exact kind of relation implied, i.e. relation of requisite condition.


As for 'samuppāda', the question is what 'sam-' means here.

Paccaya sutta (presented above) explains 'samuppāda' as simply "uppādā".

Rhys-Davids'es dictionary says that 'sam-' doesn't mean anything special here, so 'samuppaada' is just 'arising'.

In suttas the verb 'samuppajjati' means just 'arises'.

'Origination' does not quite fit phenomena that arise and cease.

So I suggest a translation 'conditioned arising'. It preserves well implied meaning "arising conditioned by conditions", wihout being redundant.

The extended version would be 'arising on the basis of requisite conditions'.

Metta, Dmytro


User avatar
Spiny O'Norman
Posts: 851
Joined: Sat May 23, 2009 8:46 am
Location: Suffolk, England

Re: Pali Term: Paṭiccasamuppāda

Postby Spiny O'Norman » Fri Oct 15, 2010 9:09 am


User avatar
Sobeh
Posts: 329
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2010 3:35 am
Location: Salt Lake City, UT, US
Contact:

Re: Pali Term: Paṭiccasamuppāda

Postby Sobeh » Fri Oct 15, 2010 9:24 pm

It's awesome, as I didn't think of Paṭiccasamuppāda as having the linguistic complexity it does. What was Ananda thinking, saying it was easy!

Sanghamitta
Posts: 1614
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:21 am
Location: By the River Thames near London.

Re: Pali Term: Paṭiccasamuppāda

Postby Sanghamitta » Sat Oct 16, 2010 4:42 pm

Very interesting, once more we are in your debt Dymtro.
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

Bhikku Bodhi.

User avatar
Dmytro
Posts: 1448
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 7:24 pm
Location: Kyiv, Ukraine
Contact:

Re: Pali Term: Paṭiccasamuppāda

Postby Dmytro » Sat Oct 16, 2010 7:29 pm



User avatar
Spiny O'Norman
Posts: 851
Joined: Sat May 23, 2009 8:46 am
Location: Suffolk, England

Re: Pali Term: Paṭiccasamuppāda

Postby Spiny O'Norman » Tue Oct 19, 2010 11:43 am


User avatar
Dmytro
Posts: 1448
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 7:24 pm
Location: Kyiv, Ukraine
Contact:

Re: Pali Term: Paṭiccasamuppāda

Postby Dmytro » Tue Oct 19, 2010 8:19 pm



User avatar
Spiny O'Norman
Posts: 851
Joined: Sat May 23, 2009 8:46 am
Location: Suffolk, England

Re: Pali Term: Paṭiccasamuppāda

Postby Spiny O'Norman » Thu Oct 21, 2010 11:21 am


User avatar
Dmytro
Posts: 1448
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 7:24 pm
Location: Kyiv, Ukraine
Contact:

Re: Pali Term: Paṭiccasamuppāda

Postby Dmytro » Thu Oct 21, 2010 12:53 pm



Sylvester
Posts: 2205
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2009 9:57 am

Re: Pali Term: Paṭiccasamuppāda

Postby Sylvester » Mon Aug 22, 2016 7:42 am



Return to “Pāli”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

Google Saffron, Theravada Search Engine