Looking for a term.

[Jason]

I seem to recall there being a word that's used to describe rare people who are incapable of ever reaching awakening. Does anybody know what it is and where it's from (e.g., sutta, commentary, etc.)?

[lojong1]

Don't know. Is it the same as an 'eternal-hasnamuss-individual'?

[Paññāsikhara]

I seem to recall there being a word that's used to describe rare people who are incapable of ever reaching awakening. Does anybody know what it is and where it's from (e.g., sutta, commentary, etc.)?

Skt: icchantika

[Goofaholix]

I seem to recall there being a word that's used to describe rare people who are incapable of ever reaching awakening. Does anybody know what it is and where it's from (e.g., sutta, commentary, etc.)?

They are known as the Tea Party Movement.

[tiltbillings]

I seem to recall there being a word that's used to describe rare people who are incapable of ever reaching awakening. Does anybody know what it is and where it's from (e.g., sutta, commentary, etc.)?

Skt: icchantika

Which is a Mahayana concept.; I do not believe there is a Theravadin equivalent that I have ever seen. If there is, it would be likely very late and likely an import.

[cooran]

Hello Jason, Tilt, all,

I'm checking with dsg friends, and will let you know if there is anything further from a Theravada perspective.

with metta
Chris

[tiltbillings]

Hello Jason, Tilt, all,

I'm checking with dsg friends, and will let you know if there is anything further from a Theravada perspective.

with metta
Chris

They know everything over there, do they?

[Ñāṇa]

I do not believe there is a Theravadin equivalent that I have ever seen. If there is, it would be likely very late and likely an import.

Buswell mentions the Theravāda idea of ekantakāḷaka from the Abhidhamma Puggalapaññatti and its commentary here.

[tiltbillings]

I do not believe there is a Theravadin equivalent that I have ever seen. If there is, it would be likely very late and likely an import.

Buswell mentions the Theravāda idea of ekantakāḷaka from the Abhidhamma Puggalapaññatti and its commentary here.

And just when you think there is nothing new to know.

http://books.google.ca/books?id=hu0oIf0n87IC&pg=PA119&lpg=PA119&dq=Buswell%20icch%20antika&source=bl&ots=F6SnPbbueo&sig=5X7OxzQd_we4vOvFjk40YAeXUzw&hl=en&ei=aa_PTK%20jnF9Gyngfkw8iNBg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBMQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false : icchantika

[cooran]

They know everything over there, do they?

Obviously not tilt!

I've just given them the last two links.

with metta
Chris

[Jason]

I seem to recall there being a word that's used to describe rare people who are incapable of ever reaching awakening. Does anybody know what it is and where it's from (e.g., sutta, commentary, etc.)?

Skt: icchantika

I think that was it, although I didn't realize it was a Mahayana concept. Thanks for your help everyone.

[convivium]

A Padaparama is an individual who, though he
encounters a Buddha Sàsana, and though he puts forth
the utmost possible effort in both the study and practice
of the Dhamma, cannot attain the Paths and the Fruits
within this lifetime. All that he can do is to accumulate
good habits and potentials (vàsanà).

http://www.noblepath.info/recommended_b ... ayadaw.pdf

[hamsa]

In the Mahāsaccakasutta there is a formula “abhabbā va te ñāṇāya dassanāya anuttarāya sambodhāya”: they are incapable (abhabba) of knowing, seeing and of the ultimate awakening. It speaks about those have not withdrawn from sense-pleasures, thus it is not an intrinsic handicap but a result of lack of practice.

[Bhikkhu Pesala]

I seem to recall there being a word that's used to describe rare people who are incapable of ever reaching awakening. Does anybody know what it is and where it's from (e.g., sutta, commentary, etc.)?

Yes, apart from Padarama individuals, there is another much more common type.

I remember a talk given by Chanymay Sayādaw at the London Buddhist Vihāra in Chiswick many moons ago. He said words to this effect:

There is one person here who is incapable of realising nibbāna. Shall I tell you who it is?

... Deadly silence as everyone thinks, “Don't tell everybody about me.”



...








...








...















...










It is the lazy person. The lazy person is incapable of realising nibbāna.

[yuttadhammo]

The term padaparama is discussed in the Puggalapaññatti:

katamo ca puggalo padaparamo? yassa puggalassa bahumpi suṇato bahumpi bhaṇato bahumpi dhārayato bahumpi vācayato na tāya jātiyā dhammābhisamayo hoti ayaṃ vuccati puggalo "padaparamo".

And what person is meant by padaparama? When, though a certain person hears much, preaches to much, bears in mind much, speaks much, there is not penetration of the truth in that life, this is said to be a person who is "padaparama".

Puggalapaññatti (catukkapuggalapaññatti)

The commentary to this passage says:

Byañjanapadameva paramaṃ assāti padaparamo. Na tāya jātiyā dhammābhisamayo hotīti na tena attabhāvena jhānaṃ vā vipassanaṃ vā maggaṃ vā phalaṃ vā nibbattetuṃ sakkotīti attho.

The mere word made up of letters is the highest (attainment) for him, thus he is padaparama. The meaning of "na tāya jātiyā dhammābhisamayo hoti" is that there is not the potential for the production of jhaana, vipassana, magga or phala by that incarnation (attabhaava).

Puggalapaññatti-aṭṭhakathā Catukkaniddesavaṇṇanā

It is clear, though, that this sort of being may attain these states in a future existence. DA says, for example:

tattha tiṇṇaṃ puggalānaṃ imasmiṃyeva attabhāve bhagavato dhammadesanā atthaṃ sādheti, padaparamānaṃ anāgate vāsanatthāya hoti.

Therein, the Blessed One's exposition of the dhamma clarifies the meaning in this very life for three persons. It is for the purpose of predisposition in the future for the padaparama.

DA Mahāpadānasuttavaṇṇanā

The term abbhaba is discussed in the Vibhanga:

"katame sattā abhabbā? ye te sattā kammāvaraṇena samannāgatā kilesāvaraṇena samannāgatā vipākāvaraṇena samannāgatā assaddhā acchandikā duppaññā abhabbā niyāmaṃ okkamituṃ kusalesu dhammesu sammattaṃ, ime te sattā abhabbā.

Which beings are the incapables? Whatever beings possess the obstruction of deeds, who possess the obstruction of defilements, who possess the obstruction of retribution, who are faithless, uninterested, of little wisdom, are unable to enter into the way of rightness in regards to wholesome realities, all such beings are incapables.

Vibhaṅga (ñāṇavibhaṅgo, mātikā, dasakaniddeso)