Yikes! People are noticing the change in me.

A forum for beginners and members of other Buddhist traditions to ask questions about Theravāda (The Way of the Elders). Responses require moderator approval before they are visible.

Re: Yikes! People are noticing the change in me.

Postby Fede » Thu May 07, 2009 1:19 pm

(I think you'd find it might.....! :tongue: )
"Samsara: The human condition's heartbreaking inability to sustain contentment." Elizabeth Gilbert, 'Eat, Pray, Love'.

Simplify: 17 into 1 WILL go: Mindfulness!

Quieta movere magna merces videbatur. (Sallust, c.86-c.35 BC)
Translation: Just to stir things up seemed a good reward in itself. ;)

I am sooooo happy - How on earth could I be otherwise?! :D


http://www.armchairadvice.co.uk/relationships/forum/
User avatar
Fede
 
Posts: 1182
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:33 pm
Location: The Heart of this "Green & Pleasant Land"...

Re: Yikes! People are noticing the change in me.

Postby David N. Snyder » Thu May 07, 2009 2:22 pm

Hi FlyingOx,

I assume you are talking about the factors of enlightenment and the book, Wings to Awakening by Thanissaro Bhikkhu?

What is your opinion of the nature of nibbana, after feeling that you have had some break-through and considering that you have read Thanissaro Bhikkhu's works? Have you read his other works, such as The Mind like fire Unbound?
User avatar
David N. Snyder
Site Admin
 
Posts: 7693
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:15 am
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada

Re: Yikes! People are noticing the change in me.

Postby flyingOx » Thu May 07, 2009 3:36 pm

TheDhamma wrote:Hi FlyingOx,

I assume you are talking about the factors of enlightenment and the book, Wings to Awakening by Thanissaro Bhikkhu?

What is your opinion of the nature of nibbana, after feeling that you have had some break-through and considering that you have read Thanissaro Bhikkhu's works? Have you read his other works, such as The Mind like fire Unbound?


How many stars are in the sky of THIS UNIVERSE? Please give me an exact number, not a rough estimate based on the astral physics of others. LOL...No, just joking. The closest that I could come to discribing Nervana, and please forgive me for not using much Theravada spellings or metaphors if you can find it in your heart...but the closest that I could come to discribing the nature of Nibbana, as you say, would be in poetry, but still it would only be a rough estimate. You could still use it, though, if you would like.

Would you like me to break out into verse? :reading:
One is encouraged to seek the truth, but be warned if you ever find it, you will be treated as blasphemous.
flyingOx
 
Posts: 143
Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 4:08 pm

Re: Yikes! People are noticing the change in me.

Postby Jechbi » Thu May 07, 2009 3:41 pm

flyingOx wrote:Would you like me to break out into verse? :reading:

Yes, please! But do it HERE.
:clap:
Rain soddens what is kept wrapped up,
But never soddens what is open;
Uncover, then, what is concealed,
Lest it be soddened by the rain.
User avatar
Jechbi
 
Posts: 1268
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 3:38 am

Re: Yikes! People are noticing the change in me.

Postby clw_uk » Thu May 07, 2009 3:49 pm

Hi

So it seems your saying you have realized nibbana, why then are you worried about what to do next?

If you are enlightened then i would like to ask you a question, since dependent origination is now clear to you could you explain it in detail here? There has been some debate as to how to interpret and understand it and any clarification would be helpful, particualy interested in sankhara and jati elements of it


Metta
Open your mind and see, open your mind and rise. Shine the light of wisdom and see, don't wait till the end of time.
User avatar
clw_uk
 
Posts: 3284
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:36 am
Location: Wales, United Kingdom

Re: Yikes! People are noticing the change in me.

Postby flyingOx » Thu May 07, 2009 3:53 pm

Jechbi wrote:
flyingOx wrote:Would you like me to break out into verse? :reading:

Yes, please! But do it HERE.
:clap:

Oh that is too funny! O.K. I will join...as soon as I quit laughing, study a little physics, and write something. Limericks are great.
One is encouraged to seek the truth, but be warned if you ever find it, you will be treated as blasphemous.
flyingOx
 
Posts: 143
Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 4:08 pm

Re: Yikes! People are noticing the change in me.

Postby flyingOx » Thu May 07, 2009 4:39 pm

clw_uk wrote:Hi

So it seems your saying you have realized nibbana, why then are you worried about what to do next?

If you are enlightened then i would like to ask you a question, since dependent origination is now clear to you could you explain it in detail here? There has been some debate as to how to interpret and understand it and any clarification would be helpful, particualy interested in sankhara and jati elements of it


Metta


First of all, I do not debate. Second of all, it is not so much a worry as much as it is not wanting to look religious at a school that I will be going to for the next few semesters. I do not have time to sort through everyone's problems. They barely give enough time to do the assignments as it is. Third, I have already found the answer to my own question if you have been reading my words rather than trying to see what kind of debate you can coax me into.

Now without debating, :jedi: I will have to look into those words "sankhara and jati" and tell you what I think when I get the time to do so. Do realize that I am still in my body and am subject to linear earth time. LOL
One is encouraged to seek the truth, but be warned if you ever find it, you will be treated as blasphemous.
flyingOx
 
Posts: 143
Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 4:08 pm

Re: Yikes! People are noticing the change in me.

Postby flyingOx » Thu May 07, 2009 5:04 pm

One other thing before I go on to completely devote the rest of my day to studying physics: A council of elders were sitting in a circle working out perceptive views with one another so to be able to communicate in a more clear, precise, and understandable way. Along comes a few others and someone new who just happened to be wandering around by himself walks through the village. He hears the late comers to the council talking about things that he is familiar with, so he joins the conversation by saying what he knows. One of the late comers to the council meeting said, “we don’t know you. Where did you come from? And why are you butting in where you don’t belong?” The wanderer said, “I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to offend you. Did I say something the wrong way?” I ask you three questions:
First, why do the elders have a council when they could easily use their great wisdom to say whatever they needed to say perfectly clear for all to understand the first time that they heard it?
Second, who has the most noble attitude, the stranger, or the late comers to the elder’s council?
Third, why are they late?
One is encouraged to seek the truth, but be warned if you ever find it, you will be treated as blasphemous.
flyingOx
 
Posts: 143
Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 4:08 pm

Re: Yikes! People are noticing the change in me.

Postby Ngawang Drolma. » Thu May 07, 2009 5:14 pm

Hi Flying Ox,

I think these words mean the following:

jati=birth
sankhara=volitional formations (conditioned mental processes)

What does your story mean? Who is the council and who is the wanderer?

:anjali:
User avatar
Ngawang Drolma.
 
Posts: 805
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 7:38 pm

Re: Yikes! People are noticing the change in me.

Postby clw_uk » Thu May 07, 2009 5:20 pm

Hey

Second of all, it is not so much a worry as much as it is not wanting to look religious at a school that I will be going to for the next few semesters.


So you dont want (which is craving, something thats abandoned at nibbana)

to look religious (worrying about your self image, which is self view or conciet, which is another thing abandoned when reaching nibbana)


Third, I have already found the answer to my own question if you have been reading my words rather than trying to see what kind of debate you can coax me into.


Im not trying to coax you into a debate :smile: , im just trying to show you that care needs to be taken when assessing ones progress along the path, a liberating experience (which im sure you have had) is not nescicarily THE liberation. Im not down playing your experience, but dont be fooled into thinking your enlightened when you might not be, this just leads to more dukkha (suffering)

sankhara and jati


Sankhara has many meanings, from Ajahn Buddhadasa

I would like to take this opportunity to discuss all the meanings of the term "sankhara." This is a very common and important word in the Pali scriptures, but many people have problems with it due to its different uses and meanings. Languages are like that, uncertain and seemingly unreliable. The single word "sankhara" can mean "conditioner," the cause that conditions; it can mean "condition," the result of the action of conditioning; and it can mean "'conditioning," the activity or process of conditioning. We use the same word for the subject of the conditioning, "the concocter," as well as the object, "the concoction." We even use it for the activity, "the concocting," itself. This may be a bit confusing for you, so please remember that "sankhara" has three meanings. The correct meaning depends on the context. This knowledge will be valuable in your further studies.


jati means birth

Metta
Open your mind and see, open your mind and rise. Shine the light of wisdom and see, don't wait till the end of time.
User avatar
clw_uk
 
Posts: 3284
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:36 am
Location: Wales, United Kingdom

Re: Yikes! People are noticing the change in me.

Postby clw_uk » Thu May 07, 2009 5:27 pm

flyingOx wrote:One other thing before I go on to completely devote the rest of my day to studying physics: A council of elders were sitting in a circle working out perceptive views with one another so to be able to communicate in a more clear, precise, and understandable way. Along comes a few others and someone new who just happened to be wandering around by himself walks through the village. He hears the late comers to the council talking about things that he is familiar with, so he joins the conversation by saying what he knows. One of the late comers to the council meeting said, “we don’t know you. Where did you come from? And why are you butting in where you don’t belong?” The wanderer said, “I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to offend you. Did I say something the wrong way?” I ask you three questions:

First, why do the elders have a council when they could easily use their great wisdom to say whatever they needed to say perfectly clear for all to understand the first time that they heard it?

Second, who has the most noble attitude, the stranger, or the late comers to the elder’s council?

Third, why are they late?


Is this supposed to be a Zen Koan or a question (or riddle) that has a logical answer?

Metta
Open your mind and see, open your mind and rise. Shine the light of wisdom and see, don't wait till the end of time.
User avatar
clw_uk
 
Posts: 3284
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:36 am
Location: Wales, United Kingdom

Re: Yikes! People are noticing the change in me.

Postby flyingOx » Thu May 07, 2009 7:30 pm

clw_uk wrote:Hey

Second of all, it is not so much a worry as much as it is not wanting to look religious at a school that I will be going to for the next few semesters.


So you dont want (which is craving, something thats abandoned at nibbana)

to look religious (worrying about your self image, which is self view or conciet, which is another thing abandoned when reaching nibbana)


Third, I have already found the answer to my own question if you have been reading my words rather than trying to see what kind of debate you can coax me into.



Im not trying to coax you into a debate :smile: , im just trying to show you that care needs to be taken when assessing ones progress along the path, a liberating experience (which im sure you have had) is not nescicarily THE liberation. Im not down playing your experience, but dont be fooled into thinking your enlightened when you might not be, this just leads to more dukkha (suffering)

sankhara and jati


Sankhara has many meanings, from Ajahn Buddhadasa

I would like to take this opportunity to discuss all the meanings of the term "sankhara." This is a very common and important word in the Pali scriptures, but many people have problems with it due to its different uses and meanings. Languages are like that, uncertain and seemingly unreliable. The single word "sankhara" can mean "conditioner," the cause that conditions; it can mean "condition," the result of the action of conditioning; and it can mean "'conditioning," the activity or process of conditioning. We use the same word for the subject of the conditioning, "the concocter," as well as the object, "the concoction." We even use it for the activity, "the concocting," itself. This may be a bit confusing for you, so please remember that "sankhara" has three meanings. The correct meaning depends on the context. This knowledge will be valuable in your further studies.


jati means birth

Metta


There are several reasons to not look very religious right now besides how people will see me for my sake. Believe me, I am not the kind of person who cares how people see me. I never was. Even when things weren’t going this good for me. It’s mostly because of time, but also because religion turns most people off. I sure don’t want my friends to end up somewhere with a bunch of religious lawyers probing them incessantly. I don’t think that kind of thing is necessary and it isn’t very loving.

Well, I’m glad that you aren’t trying to probe me like some alien with a stick. Sticks can snap, you know.
One is encouraged to seek the truth, but be warned if you ever find it, you will be treated as blasphemous.
flyingOx
 
Posts: 143
Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 4:08 pm

Re: Yikes! People are noticing the change in me.

Postby flyingOx » Thu May 07, 2009 7:38 pm

TheDhamma wrote:Hi FlyingOx,

I assume you are talking about the factors of enlightenment and the book, Wings to Awakening by Thanissaro Bhikkhu?

What is your opinion of the nature of nibbana, after feeling that you have had some break-through and considering that you have read Thanissaro Bhikkhu's works? Have you read his other works, such as The Mind like fire Unbound?


Sorry, I didn't answer all of your questions earlier and was being silly.

Wings to Awakening is the only one that I have read by Thanissaro Bhikkhu. I have studied many other books and have done much meditation for many years on my own, though. So much has been done throughout the years already to prepare for this last book that I read. It really isn't like it just happened over night, but Wings to Awakening helped me get a breakthrough.

As far as nibbana goes:

Nirvana

eternal vanishing
long lost friend
eternal vanishing
how long has it been
eternal vanishing
on you I depend
eternal vanishing
long lost friend
just then I did not see you
until my eyes could transcend
eternal vanishing
I empty myself to you
eternal vanishing
I will not lose you
eternal vanishing

I’m in

flyingOx
One is encouraged to seek the truth, but be warned if you ever find it, you will be treated as blasphemous.
flyingOx
 
Posts: 143
Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 4:08 pm

Re: Yikes! People are noticing the change in me.

Postby Ngawang Drolma. » Thu May 07, 2009 8:29 pm

Hi friend,

I mean this only to be helpful, not to make you feel uncomfortable. I'm going to share a personal story.

When I first started meditating, I found a "void" kind of quickly. It was blissful! An hour could pass and it only felt like a couple of minutes (at the most) to me. In that void nothing existed, including me. I believe I was getting what could be called "emptiness sickness." Emptiness sickness can mean other things as well. Eventually I preferred meditating to anything or anyone, and I preferred to be doing meditating over anything else. In fact I became sort of addicted. But I recovered from the emptiness sickness.

For me, connecting with a teacher proved to be a huge help. And I was able to continue to meditate (and learned some very good practices) but I was much more grounded. Now I'm not saying that what happened with me is happening to you. I'm just sharing a story.

The value of spiritual friends is tremendous for anyone! As the Buddha told Ananda, "they are the whole of spiritual life!" So having a spiritual friend or guide to evaluate our progress is invaluable. Even people with accomplishments have been known to have teachers, so maybe you would like having one too. Please let us know if we can help you find a person to connect with in your area.

Best wishes,
Drolma
User avatar
Ngawang Drolma.
 
Posts: 805
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 7:38 pm

Re: Yikes! People are noticing the change in me.

Postby Mexicali » Thu May 07, 2009 8:44 pm

If you think you're an awakened being whose aura is healing people, I think it's very possible you may want to seek psychiatric help. This is not meant as an insult; such claims in my experience have often preceded delusions of grandeur and breakdowns.
"We do not embrace reason at the expense of emotion. We embrace it at the expense of self-deception."
-- Herbert Muschamp
User avatar
Mexicali
 
Posts: 59
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:12 pm

Re: Yikes! People are noticing the change in me.

Postby David N. Snyder » Thu May 07, 2009 8:58 pm

Hi FlyingOx,

Interesting poem. I notice you used the word "eternal" about 7 times. Do you know that there is a little controversy over some of Thanissaro Bhikkhu's works? Some have found his teachings to be bordering on eternalism. That is why I asked your opinion of nibbana as I wanted to see you much you may have been led or misled (whichever the case may be) by his writings.

We live in the current dispensation of Gotama Buddha. Fortunately for us, there is no need to go at it alone. You can find a teacher as others have mentioned to help guide you. There is no need to go off into the wilderness on your own and meditate by yourself without any guidance. Certainly there are some monks who go off to a cave or lonely place for extended times, even years, but it is always after some good guidance from a teacher and / or abbot of a monastery.
User avatar
David N. Snyder
Site Admin
 
Posts: 7693
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:15 am
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada

Re: Yikes! People are noticing the change in me.

Postby flyingOx » Thu May 07, 2009 9:13 pm

Mexicali wrote:If you think you're an awakened being whose aura is healing people, I think it's very possible you may want to seek psychiatric help. This is not meant as an insult; such claims in my experience have often preceded delusions of grandeur and breakdowns.

I have seen many psychiatrists in the past, and even then they could not really find anything wrong with me. I was just sad. Anyway, you make me laugh. Being crazy doesn't bother me either. Some might say going around in a robe is crazy, too. But as far as all of the healings that have been going on around here lately, and the fact that I am not concerned with self anymore, it is definitely not insanity or grandeur.
One is encouraged to seek the truth, but be warned if you ever find it, you will be treated as blasphemous.
flyingOx
 
Posts: 143
Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 4:08 pm

Re: Yikes! People are noticing the change in me.

Postby flyingOx » Thu May 07, 2009 9:17 pm

Ngawang Drolma wrote:Hi friend,

I mean this only to be helpful, not to make you feel uncomfortable. I'm going to share a personal story.

When I first started meditating, I found a "void" kind of quickly. It was blissful! An hour could pass and it only felt like a couple of minutes (at the most) to me. In that void nothing existed, including me. I believe I was getting what could be called "emptiness sickness." Emptiness sickness can mean other things as well. Eventually I preferred meditating to anything or anyone, and I preferred to be doing meditating over anything else. In fact I became sort of addicted. But I recovered from the emptiness sickness.

For me, connecting with a teacher proved to be a huge help. And I was able to continue to meditate (and learned some very good practices) but I was much more grounded. Now I'm not saying that what happened with me is happening to you. I'm just sharing a story.

The value of spiritual friends is tremendous for anyone! As the Buddha told Ananda, "they are the whole of spiritual life!" So having a spiritual friend or guide to evaluate our progress is invaluable. Even people with accomplishments have been known to have teachers, so maybe you would like having one too. Please let us know if we can help you find a person to connect with in your area.

Best wishes,
Drolma


I thought emptiness was the goal. Am I mistaken? Anyway, I would love to find a teacher, but I currently have no money. Do Theravadan teachers require payment? I could do like I do for my mother on her birthdays, write songs. LOL
One is encouraged to seek the truth, but be warned if you ever find it, you will be treated as blasphemous.
flyingOx
 
Posts: 143
Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 4:08 pm

Re: Yikes! People are noticing the change in me.

Postby flyingOx » Thu May 07, 2009 9:20 pm

TheDhamma wrote:Hi FlyingOx,

Interesting poem. I notice you used the word "eternal" about 7 times. Do you know that there is a little controversy over some of Thanissaro Bhikkhu's works? Some have found his teachings to be bordering on eternalism. That is why I asked your opinion of nibbana as I wanted to see you much you may have been led or misled (whichever the case may be) by his writings.

We live in the current dispensation of Gotama Buddha. Fortunately for us, there is no need to go at it alone. You can find a teacher as others have mentioned to help guide you. There is no need to go off into the wilderness on your own and meditate by yourself without any guidance. Certainly there are some monks who go off to a cave or lonely place for extended times, even years, but it is always after some good guidance from a teacher and / or abbot of a monastery.


I see.
One is encouraged to seek the truth, but be warned if you ever find it, you will be treated as blasphemous.
flyingOx
 
Posts: 143
Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 4:08 pm

Re: Yikes! People are noticing the change in me.

Postby Ngawang Drolma. » Thu May 07, 2009 9:31 pm

flyingOx wrote:
Ngawang Drolma wrote:Hi friend,

I mean this only to be helpful, not to make you feel uncomfortable. I'm going to share a personal story.

When I first started meditating, I found a "void" kind of quickly. It was blissful! An hour could pass and it only felt like a couple of minutes (at the most) to me. In that void nothing existed, including me. I believe I was getting what could be called "emptiness sickness." Emptiness sickness can mean other things as well. Eventually I preferred meditating to anything or anyone, and I preferred to be doing meditating over anything else. In fact I became sort of addicted. But I recovered from the emptiness sickness.

For me, connecting with a teacher proved to be a huge help. And I was able to continue to meditate (and learned some very good practices) but I was much more grounded. Now I'm not saying that what happened with me is happening to you. I'm just sharing a story.

The value of spiritual friends is tremendous for anyone! As the Buddha told Ananda, "they are the whole of spiritual life!" So having a spiritual friend or guide to evaluate our progress is invaluable. Even people with accomplishments have been known to have teachers, so maybe you would like having one too. Please let us know if we can help you find a person to connect with in your area.

Best wishes,
Drolma


I thought emptiness was the goal. Am I mistaken? Anyway, I would love to find a teacher, but I currently have no money. Do Theravadan teachers require payment? I could do like I do for my mother on her birthdays, write songs. LOL


Hi Flying Ox,

I wouldn't worry to much about the money just now. Dana is always welcome but the important thing is probably making a connection and getting some feedback and direction. Are you in the United States?

As far as the goal, it is to be free from suffering/dukkha and to end rounds of rebirth. Emptiness is part of that picture (insofar as realizing dependent origination and anatta) but it's not the whole picture. I didn't mean to mislead you with the quote from Milarepa that I originally posted :smile:

As for retreat, I might suggest doing things in a certain order. I feel like in this instance the steps are: 1. spiritual friend 2. study materials 3. a solid practice 4. retreat. I'm glad you found Dhamma Wheel, there are lots of good people here, and some ordained practitioners participate.

This is just my input, and I am not an expert. I hope this is helpful.

Best wishes,
Drolma
Last edited by Ngawang Drolma. on Thu May 07, 2009 9:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
Ngawang Drolma.
 
Posts: 805
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 7:38 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Discovering Theravāda

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests