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is 'no self' a self-identity view? - Dhamma Wheel

is 'no self' a self-identity view?

A forum for beginners and members of other Buddhist traditions to ask questions about Theravāda (The Way of the Elders). Responses require moderator approval before they are visible.
matais
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:04 am

is 'no self' a self-identity view?

Postby matais » Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:27 pm


vinasp
Posts: 1675
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:49 pm
Location: Bristol. United Kingdom.

Re: is 'no self' a self-identity view?

Postby vinasp » Tue Aug 21, 2012 5:13 pm

Hi matais,

Quote: "I have a question. Is the view 'there is no self' also a self-identity view? Specifically, does holding such a view prevent the attainment of stream-entry?"

Thanissaro Bhikkhu appears to think that the view 'there is no self' is as bad as
the view 'there is a self'. This is his interpretation of the Nikaya teachings
which are somewhat obscure on many of these points.

You ask about the view 'there is no self' and you quote MN 2, but does this sutta
mention such a view? Let us look at Bhikkhu Bodhi's translation:

"When he attends unwisely in this way, one of six views arises in him. The view
'self exists for me' arises in him as true and established; or the view
'no self exists for me' arises in him as true and established; or the view ..."

Why does Thanissaro omit the quotation marks which make clear the actual view?
The view 'no self exists for me' is almost a self-contradictory view.

Even if it was translated as 'I have no self' it would still be a problem.
The conceit 'I am' must also be eliminated. So an Arahant would not say
'I have no self'.

But this issue is complicated by a lack of clarity on many points.

1. What exactly is a view?

2. What exactly is 'self-identity view'?

3. What is the 'fetter of views'?

4. The Buddha does say 'I' in some passages, this is understood as
'conventional speech'.

Does removing the view of self mean that one must have the view of no-self?

Regards, Vincent.

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m0rl0ck
Posts: 1160
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:51 am

Re: is 'no self' a self-identity view?

Postby m0rl0ck » Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:02 pm

“The truth knocks on the door and you say, "Go away, I'm looking for the truth," and so it goes away. Puzzling.” ― Robert M. Pirsig

Sylvester
Posts: 2205
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2009 9:57 am

Re: is 'no self' a self-identity view?

Postby Sylvester » Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:57 am


santa100
Posts: 2673
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2011 10:55 pm

Re: is 'no self' a self-identity view?

Postby santa100 » Wed Aug 22, 2012 1:18 pm



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