Suffering - Is it skandhas or attachment to them?

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Re: Attachment

Postby kc2dpt » Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:50 am

retrofuturist wrote:
Peter wrote:
retrofuturist wrote:It also shows that it's not the aggregates themselves that are being, or suffering... it's the process of clinging to them which results in being.

On what basis are you equating "being" with "suffering" here?


By putting together a quote like ""Any desire, passion, delight, or craving for form, Radha: when one is caught up there, tied up there, one is said to be 'a being.'" (as above), and recognising that without craving (i.e. with the attainment of arahantship) there is no suffering.

I do not understand your answer.
- Peter

Be heedful and you will accomplish your goal.
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Re: Suffering - Is it skandhas or attachment to them?

Postby retrofuturist » Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:53 am

Greetings Peter,

OK... trying a different method of explanation....

Using the framework outlined in SN 23.2: Satta Sutta on the previous page, to what extent was the Buddha a "being"?

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


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Re: Suffering - Is it skandhas or attachment to them?

Postby stuka » Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:54 am

Individual wrote: Many Buddhists, both Theravada and Mahayana, try to carry a burning torch the Buddha didn't light, by arguing over whether he was an impermanent lump of skandhas that decayed or an eternal, transcendental spirit which only has the illusion of birth & decay. Both views seems to miss the point of anatta. :smile:


...and neither view seems to have been espoused here.
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Re: Suffering - Is it skandhas or attachment to them?

Postby Element » Mon Jan 12, 2009 5:13 am

Individual wrote:The Buddha extinguished his delusion of self. Many Buddhists, both Theravada and Mahayana, try to carry a burning torch the Buddha didn't light, by arguing over whether he was an impermanent lump of skandhas that decayed or an eternal, transcendental spirit which only has the illusion of birth & decay. Both views seems to miss the point of anatta.

The Buddha's teaching not-self is rooted in the reality of impermanence. To miss the point of impermanence is to miss the point of anatta.

Without realising impermanence (and unsatisfactoriness), our view of Dhamma can lose groundedness and become disassociated & nihilistic.

Impermanence is like the cake and not-self is like the icing. Not-self seals the deal.

Without impermanence, dispassion will not occur and without dispassion, the Buddha's Nibbana cannot be known.

Impermanence is the gate to the Buddha. From it, virtues & empathy will arise.

We should be careful not to underestimate the importance of impermanence.

Buddha said:
There are those who do not realize that one day we all must die. But those who do realize this settle their quarrels.
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Re: Suffering - Is it skandhas or attachment to them?

Postby clw_uk » Sun Jan 18, 2009 10:57 pm

Buddha said:
There are those who do not realize that one day we all must die. But those who do realize this settle their quarrels.
[/quote]


Which sutta is this in?

Metta
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Re: Suffering - Is it skandhas or attachment to them?

Postby mikenz66 » Sun Jan 18, 2009 11:09 pm

Dhammapada verse 6. Various translations...

Acharya Buddharakkhita
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .budd.html
6. There are those who do not realize that one day we all must die. But those who do realize this settle their quarrels.


Thanissaro Bhikkhu
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/kn/dhp/dhp.01.than.html
Unlike those who don't realize
that we're here on the verge
of perishing,
those who do:
their quarrels are stilled.


Ven Narada
http://www.mettanet.org/english/Narada/ ... 0Vagga.htm
The others know not that in this quarrel we perish; those of them who realize it, have their quarrels calmed thereby. 6.

Story

A trivial incident led to an unfortunate dispute amongst the monks in the city of Kosambi. The quarrelsome monks did not listen even to the Buddha. In the end the Buddha retired to a forest and spent the rainy season there. Owing to pressure brought on them by the laity, the monks approached the Buddha and, imploring His pardon, invited Him to the city. The Buddha then admonished them.


Metta
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Re: Suffering - Is it skandhas or attachment to them?

Postby Ngawang Drolma. » Mon Jan 19, 2009 12:52 am

There are wonderful responses here, and I want to thank Bhante and everyone else who's written. I have to admit that I'm still very confused, but I've been struggling with Abhidharma for some time now. I'll need to re-read this thread a few times. Thanks again /\

As a side note, I'm very fond of this:
Impermanence is like the cake and not-self is like the icing. Not-self seals the deal.
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Re: Suffering - Is it skandhas or attachment to them?

Postby Element » Mon Jan 19, 2009 2:53 am

Drolma wrote:As a side note, I'm very fond of this:
Impermanence is like the cake and not-self is like the icing. Not-self seals the deal.


Thank you Drolma. :heart:
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Re: Suffering - Is it skandhas or attachment to them?

Postby Ngawang Drolma. » Mon Jan 19, 2009 3:14 am

Kind Element understands my capacity and speaks accordingly without blame. :heart:
Element understands that small words and metaphors will illuminate the teachings.
Even if I don't always have the intellect for dharma, I have the heart for it.

/\
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Re: Suffering - Is it skandhas or attachment to them?

Postby Element » Mon Jan 19, 2009 3:20 am

Drolma wrote:Kind Element understands my capacity and speaks accordingly without blame. :heart:

Drolma has great love & respect for the Buddha-Dhamma, as I sense it. We can find life, understanding, wholesomeness & true refuge there. :heart:
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