Taking refuge

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Taking refuge

Postby rosuto » Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:43 pm

I am due to take refuge at a Chan center on 12 July. If I take refuge with 1 tradition, must it be redone if I decide to study with a new tradition, in the manner that they do it?
It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt.
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Re: Taking refuge

Postby nomad » Sat Jul 04, 2009 10:57 pm

Would you have a problem with taking refuge again if you chose to seek answers in a different Buddhist tradition? My understanding is that each school has a somewhat unique method for seeking refuge and you may be required to undertake it if you formally wish to study with them. Anyone else have additional insight?

From Access to Insight…

By undergoing the formal ceremony of taking refuge one openly embraces the teaching of the Buddha and becomes for the first time a self-declared follower of the Master. However, going for refuge should not be an event which occurs only once in a lifetime and then is allowed to fade into the background. Going for refuge is a method of cultivation, a practice of inner development which should be undertaken regularly, repeated and renewed every day as part of one's daily routine. Just as we care for our body by washing it each morning, so we should also take care of our mind by implanting in it each day the fundamental seed for our development along the Buddhist path, that is, the going for refuge.


~nomad

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Re: Taking refuge

Postby kc2dpt » Sun Jul 05, 2009 12:44 am

It is not necessary to formally take refuge in order to study Theravada. Just show up.
If you like, ask a Theravada monk if he could administer the precepts to you. Quick and easy. :)
Congrats on your upcoming refuge ceremony. :clap:
- Peter

Be heedful and you will accomplish your goal.
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Re: Taking refuge

Postby retrofuturist » Sun Jul 05, 2009 12:47 am

Greetings Rosuto,

rosuto wrote:I am due to take refuge at a Chan center on 12 July. If I take refuge with 1 tradition, must it be redone if I decide to study with a new tradition, in the manner that they do it?


A Ch'an centre is also likely to get you to take bodhisattva precepts, which might no longer sit well with you, if your preference were to become the Theravada tradition. As to how easy it is to give up such precepts after taking them, I don't know, but I would recommend you find out before the big day. Perhaps ask over at Zen Forum International? ( http://www.zenforuminternational.org/ )

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


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Re: Taking refuge

Postby rosuto » Sun Jul 05, 2009 12:50 am

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings Rosuto,

rosuto wrote:I am due to take refuge at a Chan center on 12 July. If I take refuge with 1 tradition, must it be redone if I decide to study with a new tradition, in the manner that they do it?


A Ch'an centre is also likely to get you to take bodhisattva precepts, which might no longer sit well with you, if your preference were to become the Theravada tradition. As to how easy it is to give up such precepts after taking them, I don't know, but I would recommend you find out before the big day. Perhaps ask over at Zen Forum International? ( http://www.zenforuminternational.org/ )

Metta,
Retro. :)


Actually, I know that for this particular place, taking refuge is its own ceremony, and the precepts are done at another time. very good point though, not something I would have thought of.
It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt.
Abraham Lincoln
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Re: Taking refuge

Postby mikenz66 » Sun Jul 05, 2009 3:42 am

Peter wrote:It is not necessary to formally take refuge in order to study Theravada. Just show up.
If you like, ask a Theravada monk if he could administer the precepts to you. Quick and easy. :)
Congrats on your upcoming refuge ceremony. :clap:

Yes, as Peter says, taking refuge (and precepts as well) takes about 5 minutes. :bow:

Not that you shouldn't take these things seriously -- you should. But it's been my experience that it's up to the individual to be serious. My name isn't recorded anywhere, I don't have a membership card, or a name (other than Mike...). At my Wat we do refuges and precepts every Sunday before lunch. It's common to do it when you visit a Wat elsewhere...

The Theravada refuges and precepts are very generic, just taking refuge in the Buddha, Dhamma, Sangha and the five precepts. I can't see how they could conflict with other sects...
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... #precepts5

Mike
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Re: Taking refuge

Postby Individual » Sun Jul 05, 2009 4:39 am

rosuto wrote:I am due to take refuge at a Chan center on 12 July. If I take refuge with 1 tradition, must it be redone if I decide to study with a new tradition, in the manner that they do it?

I think that conversion ceremonies (like formally taking refuge or bodhisattva vows in Mahayana Buddhism) can be counterproductive because it fails to miss the point of notself, Noble Right View, non-craving, etc..
The best things in life aren't things.

The Diamond Sutra
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Re: Taking refuge

Postby appicchato » Tue Jul 07, 2009 12:33 pm

The ceremony itself is fluff...like many of the rites and rituals concerning any tradition...for a (very) good idea of what taking refuge is all about may I suggest you read the Venerable Nyanaponika Thera's essay on the topic...

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... el076.html

Wishing you well... :smile:
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Re: Taking refuge

Postby BlackBird » Tue Jul 07, 2009 11:16 pm

appicchato wrote:...for a (very) good idea of what taking refuge is all about may I suggest you read the Venerable Nyanaponika Thera's essay on the topic...

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... el076.html

Wishing you well... :smile:


Just adding a footnote to the post above, as the link seems to have broken up along the way

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... el076.html

Here it is again, reborn in all it's glory.

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'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." - MN. 70 Kitagiri Sutta
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