Nutriment

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Nutriment

Postby Jechbi » Fri Jul 17, 2009 6:10 am

I'd love to hear insights about nutriment if anyone is inclined to share some.

The thought crossed my mind as I was listening to a talk by Ajahn Brahm on my mp3 player, while he discussed upadana, often translated as clinging. But he said a nuance of the word is that it's like drawing on a source of fuel, like the flame of a candle does. So upadana is involved as the flame draws the wax up. Upadana. A great way to remember that term.

This struck me as a good description of nutriment, and when I looked here at the Ahara Sutta, the relationship seems to be discussed in some detail. One application might be the Fifth Precept, which gets some debate over whether the precept means total abstinence from alcohol or just not getting drunk. Well, in the context of upadana, if one regards alcohol as a kind of nutriment, then the precept could be seen as a practice of being aware of the nutriments we are introducing into our experience. Just a little bit of alcohol, just a little bit of delusion, just a little bit of anger. Why introduce that kind of nutriment in the first place?

Here is another discussion about nutriment, with references.

Insights? Clarifications? Cautions? Anyone else out there thinking about nutriment lately?

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Re: Nutriment

Postby Ben » Fri Jul 17, 2009 6:18 am

Hi Jechbi
Do you have The manuals of Dhamma, by Ledi Sayadaw?
If so, I think the first essay, which is also published separately, vipassana dipani: manual of insight, may have references to the four types of nutriment. Its either that essay or his essay on the conditional relations. If i get time over the weekend, I'll have a look for you.
Metta

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Re: Nutriment

Postby appicchato » Fri Jul 17, 2009 7:15 am

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Re: Nutriment

Postby cooran » Fri Jul 17, 2009 7:59 am

Hello jechbi, all,

A little from the Visuddhimagga and the Abhidhamma (lifted from Dhammastudygroup posts):

"The Path of Purification" (Visuddhimagga), Ch. XVII

90. (15) The four kinds of nutriment, which assist material and
immaterial states by consolidating them, are 'nutriment conditions',
according as it is said: 'Physical nutriment is a condition, as
nutriment condition, for this body. Immaterial nutriments are
conditions, as nutriment condition, for associated states and for the
kinds of materiality originated by them' (P.tn.1,5). But in the Question
Section it is said: 'At the moment of rebirth-linking, resultant
indeterminate nutriments are conditions, as nutriment condition, for
aggregates associated therewith and for the kinds of materiality due to
kamma performed' (P.tn.1,174).
************************
90. ruupaaruupaana.m upatthambhaka.t.thena upakaarakaa cattaaro aahaaraa
aahaarapaccayo. yathaaha ``kaba.liikaaro aahaaro imassa kaayassa
aahaarapaccayena paccayo. aruupino aahaaraa sampayuttakaana.m
dhammaana.m
ta.msamu.t.thaanaana~nca ruupaana.m aahaarapaccayena paccayo''ti
(pa.t.thaa0
1.1.15). pa~nhaavaare pana ``pa.tisandhikkha.ne vipaakaabyaakataa
aahaaraa sampayuttakaana.m khandhaana.m ka.tattaa ca ruupaana.m
aahaarapaccayena paccayo''tipi (pa.t.thaa0 1.1.429) vutta.m.

===================================================
Visuddhimagga Ch XVII, 90.
Nutriment-Condition (Aahaara-Paccaya)
Intro:
There are four kinds of nutriment which are nutriment-condition,
aahaara-paccaya.
One kind is physical nutriment and three are mental nutriments.They are:

physical nutriment
contact (phassa cetasika)
volition (manosañcetanå which is cetanaa cetasika)
consciousness (viññaa.na)

Nutriment is a conditioning dhamma that maintains and supports the
growth and development of the conditioned dhammas.
As regards physical nutriment, this sustains the ruupas of the body.
As we have seen,there are three kinds of mental nutriment which are:
contact (phassa), volition (manosañcetanå) and citta (viññaa.na).
Just as physical food supports and maintains the body does mental
nutriment support and maintain the accompanying dhammas. In the case
of mental nutriment the conditioning dhamma is conascent with the
conditioned dhammas.
As to the mental nutriment which is contact, phassa, this is a
cetasika which contacts the object so that citta and the accompanying
cetasikas can experience it.
As to the mental nutriment which is volition, manosañcetanaa, this is
cetanaa cetasika which accompanies all eighty-nine types of citta,
thus it can be of the jåti which is kusala, akusala, vipaaka or
kiriya. It coordinates the tasks of the citta and cetasikas it
accompanies, and conditions them by way of nutriment-condition. As we
have seen, cetanaa conditions the associated dhammas also by way of
conascent kamma-condition, sahajaata kamma-paccaya.
As to the mental nutriment which is viññaa.na or citta, this refers
to each citta. Citta supports and maintains the accompanying
cetasikas, it conditions them by way of nutriment-condition.

Thus, at each moment the three mental nutriments of contact, volition
and citta support and maintain the dhammas arising together with
them, and they also condition the ruupa produced by citta at that
moment by way of nutriment-condition.

The three mental nutriments can be considered under the aspect of the
Pa.t.thaana and under the aspect of the Dependent Origination. In
this section of the Visuddhimagga they are dealt with under the
aspect of the Pa.t.thaana. Later on the Visuddhimagga deals with them
under the aspect of the Dependent Origination.
------------


Text Vis. 90: (15) The four kinds of nutriment, which assist material
and immaterial states by consolidating them, are 'nutriment
conditions', according as it is said: 'Physical nutriment is a
condition, as nutriment condition, for this body. Immaterial
nutriments are conditions, as nutriment condition, for associated
states and for the kinds of materiality originated by them' (P.tn.1,5).
--------
N: As to physical nutriment, kaba.liikaaro ahaaro, this is food made
into morsels, eatable food. Nutritive essence (ojå) present in food
that has been taken suffuses the body and then new ruupas can be
produced. As we have seen, nutrition is one of the four factors which
produces ruupas of the body, the other three being kamma, citta and
temperature.
Nutritive essence is present in all groups of rúpas; it is one of the
eight "inseparable ruupas'' present in all materiality, no matter it
is the body or materiality outside.

Nutritive essence present in the groups of ruupas of the body cannot
produce new rúpas without the support of nutritive essence which is
in food, external nutritive essence.
The Tiika states that if physical nutriment would not support the
ruupas of the body that originate from the four factors there would
not be the production of ruupas without interruption.
The nutritive essence which, because of the support of external
nutritive essence, produces new rúpas of the body also supports and
maintains the groups of rúpas originating from the four factors.
The Tiika emphasizes that the nature of material food and mental food
is to give support in consolidating the dhammas they condition by way
of nutrition-condition.
The Tiika states that mental food, aruupaahaara, is also a condition
for ruupa dhammas by way of nutrition-condition.
The mental nutriments, contact, volition and citta, condition the
naama dhammas which arise together with them and also the ruupas
produced by citta by way of nutriment-condition.
----------
Text Vis.: But in the Question Section it is said: 'At the moment of
rebirth-linking, resultant indeterminate nutriments are conditions,
as nutriment condition, for aggregates associated therewith and for
the kinds of materiality due to kamma performed' (P.tn.1,174).
------------
The Tiika adds that the mental nutriments condition by way of
nutriment not only mind-produced ruupa, but also sometimes ruupa
produced by kamma that has been performed.
The word ‘sometimes’ (kadaaci) refers to the moment of rebirth. At
that moment kamma produces simultaneously the rebirth-consciousness
and also ruupas. At the moment of rebirth the mental nutriments
condition the associated naama-dhammas and the ruupa produced by
kamma by way of nutriment-condition (Paììhåna,Faultless Triplet, Ch
VII,Investigation Chapter,Nutriment,§ 429).

******
Conclusion.
We eat food to keep the body going, and at each moment nutrition-
condition operates by supporting and consolidating all the ruupas of
which the body consists, be they produced by kamma, citta,
temperature or nutrition. If nutrition would not support all the
ruupas of the body that arise and fall away and are replaced by new
ruupas, our body would collapse. If we consider the intricate way in
which different conditions operate so that the body can function, we
can come to understand that we are not the owner of our body.
As to the mental food contact, phassa, this cetasika arises with each
citta and it supports citta and the accompanying cetasikas so that
they can experience the object that is contacted by it. When seeing
arises, it is accompanied by contact which supports seeing by way of
nutrition-condition, so that it can experience visible object. When
hearing arises, a different object is contacted, sound. All the time
different objects are experienced, but this would not be possible
without contact that arises together with citta.
Volition coordinates the tasks of the accompanying dhammas and in
doing so it supports and consolidates them.
Citta is the chief in cognizing an object and it supports the
accompanying cetasikas that experience the same object, each in their
own manner. They could not do so without the support of citta.
Citta and cetasikas need the support of the mental nutritions, and
apart from this condition, they are dependent on many other
conditions as well. This helps us to see that they are devoid of a
self who could manipulate them.
**********
Nina.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dhammastu ... sage/61652
Chapter 12

Nutriment-Condition (Åhåra-Paccaya)

There are four kinds of nutriment which are nutriment-condition,
åhåra-paccaya. One kind is physical nutriment and three are mental
nutriment. They are:
physical nutriment
contact (phassa cetasika)
volition (manosañcetanå which is cetanå cetasika)
consciousness (viññåna)

In the case of åhåra-paccaya, a conditioning dhamma maintains and
supports the growth and development of the conditioned dhammas [1].
As regards physical nutriment, this sustains the rúpas of the body.
Nutritive essence (ojå) present in food that has been taken suffuses
the body and then new rúpas can be produced. As we have seen,
nutrition is one of the four factors which produces rúpas of the
body, the other three being kamma, citta and temperature. Nutritive
essence is present in all groups of rúpas; it is one of the eight
“inseparable rúpas” present in all materiality, no matter it is the
body or materiality outside. Nutritive essence arises together with
the four Great Elements of solidity, cohesion, temperature and
motion, and with visible object, flavour and odour. Nutritive essence
present in the groups of rúpas of the body cannot produce new rúpas
without the support of nutritive essence which is in food, external
nutritive essence. For the new being in the mother’s womb it is
necessary that the mother takes food so that nutritive essence
present in food can suffuse its body. Then nutritive essence can
produce new rúpas and thus it goes on throughout life. The nutritive
essence which, because of the support of external nutritive essence,
produces new rúpas of the body also supports and maintains the groups
of rúpas produced by kamma, citta and temperature.
When nutriment has been taken the nutritive essence present in the
body can produce new groups of rúpas, and nutritive essence present
in such a group can in its turn produce another group of eight
“inseparable rúpas” (an octad), and so on, and thus there can be
several occurrences of octads. In this way nutriment which has been
taken can be sufficient for some time afterwards (Visuddhimagga XX, 37).

--------
1. The Commmentary to the “Discourse on Right Understanding” (Middle
Length Sayings I, 9), the Papañcasúdaní, gives an explanation of the
word åhåra. The condition fetches (åharati) its own fruit, therefore
it is called åhåra.

********
Nina.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dhammastu ... sage/75478


metta

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Re: Nutriment

Postby Jechbi » Fri Jul 17, 2009 8:33 am

Thanks Ben, all. Very helpful references.
Ben wrote:Do you have The manuals of Dhamma, by Ledi Sayadaw?
No. Looks like it would be a back-order through Pariyatti, cuz they're out. Appreciate you taking a look if you have time.
Metta
Rain soddens what is kept wrapped up,
But never soddens what is open;
Uncover, then, what is concealed,
Lest it be soddened by the rain.
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