Going from Mahayana to "Secular Buddhism" to Theravada

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dsaly1969
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Going from Mahayana to "Secular Buddhism" to Theravada

Post by dsaly1969 »

Hi all,

I've been away from the forum for a while but have been keeping up with my practice. I came to Buddhism through the Japanese Mahayana schools of Jodo Shinshu (Shin Buddhism, which is a Pure Land sect) and Rissho Kosei-kai (aka RKK, which is a Lotus Sutra centered group). Due to the fantasical imagery of the Mahayana sutras which are the focus of their practices, both groups tended to have a large number of people with metaphorical views of the mythos of the Pure Land and the Lotus Sutra respectively so they gravitated towards views that approximate "secular Buddhism" as it is termed. However, RKK placed a heavy emphasis on learning and implementing some of the basic core teachings of Buddhism like the 4NT and 8FP.

So when I came to look at Theravada initially, I came with that "secular Buddhist" mindset which downplays a literal view of rebirth (and the "supernatural") and the commentaries. After practicing for a while, I have come to the conclusion that perhaps I should not set up myself as an equal authority to the Buddha and accept rebirth as a working hypothesis. I have found that accepting Buddhadhamma as a whole and then practicing from that basis has worked much better for me as it does not overly deconstruct the teachings like the Wheel of Rebirth. My daily practice comes from the more traditional Theravada practice of the Salutation (Namo tassa, bhagavato, arahato, samma-sambudhassa 3x), Ti Sarana (Taking Refuge 3x formula), Five Precepts (I do these in English), and then walking and sitting meditation in the Vipassana tradition.

Unfortunately I do not have a local Buddhist practice group. So I now want to start studying more of the Pali Canon and commentaries. Any suggestions or constructive feedback?

Dave
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Mkoll
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Re: Going from Mahayana to "Secular Buddhism" to Theravada

Post by Mkoll »

Dear Dave,

The introductory resources section on this website has some great things to get started. I always recommend interested new learners to check out Ven. Bhikkhu Bodhi's anthology of the Pali Canon: In the Buddha's Words. It gives a good foundation of the Buddha's main teachings with direct translations of many suttas on different subjects.

:anjali:
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
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mikenz66
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Re: Going from Mahayana to "Secular Buddhism" to Theravada

Post by mikenz66 »

Here's the introductory thread referred to above: http://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=148

:anjali:
Mike
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BlackBird
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Re: Going from Mahayana to "Secular Buddhism" to Theravada

Post by BlackBird »

Check out the Sutta study group here mate. As others have said Ven. Bodhi's anthology is very good. Ven. Thanissaro also has some sutta study guides at accesstoinsight.org that are really quite good.

Metta
Jack
"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." - MN. 70 Kitagiri Sutta

Path Press - Ñāṇavīra Thera Dhamma Page - Ajahn Nyanamoli's Dhamma talks
dsaly1969
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Re: Going from Mahayana to "Secular Buddhism" to Theravada

Post by dsaly1969 »

Thanks all for the great suggestions! I will be checking out the links and the Sutta study group here at Dhamma Wheel.

I'm also hoping to find some good Android apps to support my practice while I am at work (I supervise social workers in the field of child abuse and neglect investigations, interventions to address said issues, as well as working with former foster youth transitioning to more self-sufficiency and hopefully a productive adulthood. Obviously a job with its own challenges and stresses.)

Other online practice resources and groups in the Theravada tradition would be appreciated!

Thanks!
Feathers
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Re: Going from Mahayana to "Secular Buddhism" to Theravada

Post by Feathers »

Sorry I've nothing to contribute advice-wise, but I'd like to thank you for sharing your approach and your way of dealing with the supernatural/rebirth etc. elements. It's an interesting approach (for me) to consider, as I generally have problems with some of those elements as well.
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BlackBird
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Re: Going from Mahayana to "Secular Buddhism" to Theravada

Post by BlackBird »

dsaly1969 wrote:Thanks all for the great suggestions! I will be checking out the links and the Sutta study group here at Dhamma Wheel.

I'm also hoping to find some good Android apps to support my practice while I am at work (I supervise social workers in the field of child abuse and neglect investigations, interventions to address said issues, as well as working with former foster youth transitioning to more self-sufficiency and hopefully a productive adulthood. Obviously a job with its own challenges and stresses.)

Other online practice resources and groups in the Theravada tradition would be appreciated!

Thanks!
Access to insight has an android app which is essentially the entire website of suttas, essays, transcribed talks and bios all available offline:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... active.ati

A number of us here use the Insight Timer app for our meditation, as the title suggests it times your meditation session and has a nice bell at the end, it's has a lot of cool features such as graphs to keep track of how much you've meditated etc, and social media elements such as forums and friend-abilities:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... timerlite2

There is also a paid for version, which I think is very worth it for only $3 or so.

I made a list of good resources online for those interested in Theravada here too, this talk of apps gives me an idea for a new section:
http://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=3012

metta
Jack
"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." - MN. 70 Kitagiri Sutta

Path Press - Ñāṇavīra Thera Dhamma Page - Ajahn Nyanamoli's Dhamma talks
Spiny Norman
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Re: Going from Mahayana to "Secular Buddhism" to Theravada

Post by Spiny Norman »

dsaly1969 wrote: Unfortunately I do not have a local Buddhist practice group.
Dave, I'd recommend double-checking to see if there are any Theravada groups in your area, as face-to-face contact with other Buddhists can be very helpful, even if it's only on an occasional basis - or maybe there is somewhere you could do a retreat?
This site might be helpful: http://www.buddhanet.info/wbd/ - not all local groups sign up to this directory, but the ones who do have a listing should know what else is going on in their area.
Buddha save me from new-agers!
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retrofuturist
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Re: Going from Mahayana to "Secular Buddhism" to Theravada

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings Dave,

Welcome to Dhamma Wheel ~ I hope you find it a valuable resource as you investigate and learn the Dhamma further.

:buddha1:

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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Bhikkhu_Jayasara
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Re: Going from Mahayana to "Secular Buddhism" to Theravada

Post by Bhikkhu_Jayasara »

welcome to "theravada",


I consider myself an agnostic, always have, I've never felt anything in the theravada or pali scriptures was so mythical or fantastic that it took away from the important part, the practice here and now. Even the Buddha himself really spoke more about practice, practice, practice, look at his last words.

for those who really get hung up on rebirth and kamma I always offer the Kalama sutta, not the famous paragraph, but one down at the bottom

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

"Now, Kalamas, one who is a disciple of the noble ones — his mind thus free from hostility, free from ill will, undefiled, & pure — acquires four assurances in the here-&-now:

"'If there is a world after death, if there is the fruit of actions rightly & wrongly done, then this is the basis by which, with the break-up of the body, after death, I will reappear in a good destination, the heavenly world.' This is the first assurance he acquires.

"'But if there is no world after death, if there is no fruit of actions rightly & wrongly done, then here in the present life I look after myself with ease — free from hostility, free from ill will, free from trouble.' This is the second assurance he acquires."


You never hear the Buddha say " hah you don't believe in rebirth? you suck then you can't be a buddhist"... instead he takes a pragmatic approach.. even if there is no such thing as rebirth and kamma.. you live skillfully and in peace right here and now, how can you go wrong?
______________________________________________________________________________________________________
Bhikkhu Jayasāra -http://www.youtube.com/studentofthepath and https://maggasekha.org/
dsaly1969
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Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2012 10:19 am

Re: Going from Mahayana to "Secular Buddhism" to Theravada

Post by dsaly1969 »

Thanks for the great feedback. I'm still practicing. :buddha2:
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