Element wrote:Thus reincarnation looks as follows:
Where as rebirth looks as follows, born into various realms of experience due to our actions:
stuka wrote:Individual wrote:Reincarnation: At death, self-consciousness continues, in the form of a soul.
Buddhist rebirth: There is no such thing as "self-consciousness". Consciousness ceases at death also, but it [stuka's note; CONSCIOUSNESS!!!! ] still reunites, reappears, in the form of\as the result of a new body, conditioned by the kamma of the previous life.Then the Blessed One said: "Sati, is it true, that such an pernicious view has arisen to you. ‘As I know the Teaching of the Blessed One, this consciousness transmigrates through existences, not anything else’?"
"Yes, venerable sir, as I know the Teaching of the Blessed One, this consciousness transmigrates through existences, not anything else."
"Sati, what is that consciousness ?"
"Venerable sir, it is that which feels and experiences, that which reaps the results of good and evil actions done here and there."
"Foolish man, to whom do you know me having taught the Dhamma like this. Haven’t I taught, in various ways that consciousness is dependently arisen. Without a cause, there is no arising of consciousness. Yet you, foolish man, on account of your wrong view, you misrepresent me, as well as destroy yourself and accumulate much demerit, for which you will suffer for a long time."
jcsuperstar wrote:soto accepts the same mahayana ideas of rebirth as the rest of japanese buddhism and the chinese buddhism it sprang from, same as korean buddhism and vietnamese as well.
there are a few soto teachers who teach no literal rebirth but it isnt a soto teaching as much as it's a teacher and his few students teaching...
tibetan buddhism is the only time i have ever heard anything where the same dude comes back 14 times or whatever
jcsuperstar wrote:... it always just seemed like it was being made up as the person went long ...
Fede wrote:Thank you genkaku....
My problem lies not in "what" it is, but "Why" it is....Reincarnation, that is.... vis-a-vis Tibetan Buddhism.
I am seeking to clarify the Tibetan Buddhist stance on this.
of course, it could be argued that I am in COMPLETELY the wrong forum -!
Individual wrote:I haven't said it "transmigrates." It is definitely swept away, but then, its cessation is as impermanent as its instantiation. Not the same thing as eternalism.
stuka wrote:Individual wrote:I haven't said it "transmigrates." It is definitely swept away, but then, its cessation is as impermanent as its instantiation. Not the same thing as eternalism.
You are making up as you go along.
Individual wrote:stuka wrote:Individual wrote:I haven't said it "transmigrates." It is definitely swept away, but then, its cessation is as impermanent as its instantiation. Not the same thing as eternalism.
You are making up as you go along.
Doubtful, because I'm pretty consistent in my view of rebirth, though I'm a bit undecided as to what the post-mortem state "feels like," if there even is anything like such a feeling (whether there are bardo realms in some sense, or it's complete unconsciousness until the apparently instantaneous next rebirth).
The consistency: Life is impermanent, death is impermanent. Consciousness is impermanent, unconsciousness is impermanent. Perception of self-consciousness is impermanent, nonperception of self-consciousness is impermanent... And all of this is suffering.
Now, it's difficult to say what post-mortem existence is really like, but the general idea is clear enough, cessation and the re-manifestation in accordance with kamma. No need to be attached to metaphysical explanations or averse to them.
It's peculiar how you would understand... if I took away your body and only had your brain in a jar, you could certainly conceive of scientists creating the technology to give you a new body, in accordance with kamma.
And yet you associate self with brain,
so you think if brain is gone, everything is annihilated.
But just as mind is supported by brain, brain is supported by mind (originating co-dependently).
You are an annihilationist, Stuka. In your heart, you refute rebirth.
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