Reincarnation Question.

A forum for beginners and members of other Buddhist traditions to ask questions about Theravāda (The Way of the Elders). Responses require moderator approval before they are visible.
User avatar
Jason
Posts: 470
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:09 am
Location: Earth
Contact:

Re: Reincarnation Question.

Postby Jason » Sun May 02, 2010 10:13 pm

Sobeh wrote:
Jason wrote:if the conditions for its existence persist indefinitely


This happens not at all. You are basing your word-play on impossibilities.


Says who?

As far as I'm aware, it's never explicitly stated by the Buddha or posited in Theravada that the conditions for a given phenomenon's existence will necessarily cease, only that they can if the requisite conditions for its cessation are present. In the case of literal rebirth, there's no guarantee that those requisite conditions will be met — i.e., that all sentient beings will be liberated — so I'm not sure how one can say with any real conviction that this is an impossibility or "happens not at all." In fact, it's logically possible that "when this is [indefinitely], that is [indefinitely]."
"Sabbe dhamma nalam abhinivesaya" (AN 7.58).

leaves in the hand (Buddhist-related blog)
leaves in the forest (non-Buddhist related blog)

User avatar
Sobeh
Posts: 329
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2010 3:35 am
Location: Salt Lake City, UT, US
Contact:

Re: Reincarnation Question.

Postby Sobeh » Mon May 03, 2010 3:18 am

Anicca.

User avatar
appicchato
Posts: 1603
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:47 am
Location: Bridge on the River Kwae

Re: Reincarnation Question.

Postby appicchato » Mon May 03, 2010 3:55 am

As far as I'm aware, it's never explicitly stated by the Buddha or posited in Theravada that the conditions for a given phenomenon's existence will necessarily cease, only that they can if the requisite conditions for its cessation are present.


Semantics...one can say that a given phenomenon's existence will (indeed) necessarily (by necessity) cease, if the requisite conditions for its cessation are present...

User avatar
Jason
Posts: 470
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:09 am
Location: Earth
Contact:

Re: Reincarnation Question.

Postby Jason » Mon May 03, 2010 4:09 am

Sobeh wrote:Anicca.


That doesn't negate anything I've said.

Anicca simply means inconstant, and in terms of compounded phenomena, it implies change and lack of self (because whatever is inconstant and subject to change isn't fit to be called "me" or "mine"). The process of rebirth is a process of continual change, one that lacks a permanent, unchanging self. Nevertheless, the literal process of rebirth can be said to be infinite as long as the conditions for it's continuation are present, and finite if and when those conditions cease. So again, as far as I can see, it's logically possible that "when this is [indefinitely], that is [indefinitely]."
"Sabbe dhamma nalam abhinivesaya" (AN 7.58).

leaves in the hand (Buddhist-related blog)
leaves in the forest (non-Buddhist related blog)

User avatar
appicchato
Posts: 1603
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:47 am
Location: Bridge on the River Kwae

Re: Reincarnation Question.

Postby appicchato » Mon May 03, 2010 4:23 am

Anicca simply means inconstant...


Again...not quite there...anicca means (in every dictionary I've seen) impermanence...not inconstancy...

User avatar
Jason
Posts: 470
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:09 am
Location: Earth
Contact:

Re: Reincarnation Question.

Postby Jason » Mon May 03, 2010 4:37 am

appicchato wrote:
Anicca simply means inconstant...


Again...not quite there...anicca means (in every dictionary I've seen) impermanence...not inconstancy...


Anicca is the negative of nicca, which means constant or dependable.
"Sabbe dhamma nalam abhinivesaya" (AN 7.58).

leaves in the hand (Buddhist-related blog)
leaves in the forest (non-Buddhist related blog)

User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
Posts: 15111
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: Reincarnation Question.

Postby retrofuturist » Mon May 03, 2010 4:44 am

Greetings Jason,

Jason wrote:Anicca is the negative of nicca, which means constant or dependable.


Chances are you've seen this, but Nanavira Thera gives a thought-provoking analysis on the problem with interpreting aniccata as flux...

http://www.nanavira.110mb.com/sn-patic.htm#nc

Metta,
Retro. :)
“Delighting in existence O monks, are gods and men; they are attached to existence. they revel in existence. When the Dhamma for the cessation of existence is being preached to them, their minds do not leap towards it, do not get pleased with it, do not get settled in it, do not find confidence in it. That is how, monks, some lag behind … (It. p 43)”

Dharma Wheel (Mahayana / Vajrayana forum) -- Open flower ~ Open book (blog)

User avatar
Jason
Posts: 470
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:09 am
Location: Earth
Contact:

Re: Reincarnation Question.

Postby Jason » Mon May 03, 2010 4:49 am

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings Jason,

Jason wrote:Anicca is the negative of nicca, which means constant or dependable.


Chances are you've seen this, but Nanavira Thera gives a thought-provoking analysis on the problem with interpreting aniccata as flux...

http://www.nanavira.110mb.com/sn-patic.htm#nc

Metta,
Retro. :)


Interesting. Thanks.
"Sabbe dhamma nalam abhinivesaya" (AN 7.58).

leaves in the hand (Buddhist-related blog)
leaves in the forest (non-Buddhist related blog)


Return to “Discovering Theravāda”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

Google Saffron, Theravada Search Engine