Arahantship questions

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Arahantship questions

Postby zazang » Sun May 23, 2010 3:20 pm

Hello all !

This is my first post here and I am so delighted to find like-minded people who want to be out of the samsara :)

I have only been reading and studying for the past one year from S.N Goenka's discourses and online articles.

I have a few questions regarding Arahants :-

1. After someone becomes an Arahant , I can understand that he/she will still continue to feel physical pain. Like if suddenly a hot object
touches him/her then there will be a reaction of going away from that hot object. My question is - Is there no trace of emotional/mental pain after
becoming an Arahant or the Arahant simply controls it after it arises ?

2. If a wild animal comes and attacks an Arahant - will he/she not defend himself/herself ?

3. I read somewhere that when a person achieves nirvana - he/she can remain in that state for maybe a few seconds , maybe a few minutes or maybe a few hours. After he/she comes out of that state - he/she becomes an Arahant. Can that Arahant again achieve that state of Nirvana - or it is achievable only once ?
(I read that the Buddha used to get into higher Jhanas even after reaching enlightenment.)

4. From what I've read , the Buddha definitely seems to have used Jhanas to reach enlightenment. Should we all not progress in the same way ?

Bhavatu sarve mangal..

regards
Shashank
zazang
 
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Re: Arahantship questions

Postby Anicca » Sun May 23, 2010 3:48 pm

Howdy zazang!

i am least competent to answer - i just like to exercise my ignorance around here - as Ben once said - a BOULDER of salt!!!
zazang wrote:Hello all !

This is my first post here and I am so delighted to find like-minded people who want to be out of the samsara :)

I have only been reading and studying for the past one year from S.N Goenka's discourses and online articles.

I have a few questions regarding Arahants :-

1. After someone becomes an Arahant , I can understand that he/she will still continue to feel physical pain. Like if suddenly a hot object
touches him/her then there will be a reaction of going away from that hot object. My question is - Is there no trace of emotional/mental pain after
becoming an Arahant or the Arahant simply controls it after it arises ?
As i understand it - the body has the pain - there is no self to hold the pain - it is the body that 'goes away from the hot object' not he/she. The sutta where the cows hide is taken off the cow then placed back on - the body is still there but the connection to the fabricated 'self' is no longer - it is not controlled - it no longer exists as a 'self' pain - self is separate from body/mind.

2. If a wild animal comes and attacks an Arahant - will he/she not defend himself/herself ?
If you are asking will he/she kill it to stay alive - i'd say no. Within parameters they may defend to prevent harm to the animal and themselves - but they would surrender to death before breaking a precept.

3. I read somewhere that when a person achieves nirvana - he/she can remain in that state for maybe a few seconds , maybe a few minutes or maybe a few hours. After he/she comes out of that state - he/she becomes an Arahant. Can that Arahant again achieve that state of Nirvana - or it is achievable only once ?
(I read that the Buddha used to get into higher Jhanas even after reaching enlightenment.)
I have trouble with "achieves" - stream enterers see the deathless for a moment - arahants in my mind are full time 24/7 ... someone else can explain better i hope...

4. From what I've read , the Buddha definitely seems to have used Jhanas to reach enlightenment. Should we all not progress in the same way ?
YES!

Bhavatu sarve mangal..
Metta
regards
Shashank
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Re: Arahantship questions

Postby Anicca » Sun May 23, 2010 3:54 pm

Sheesh -
self is separate from body/mind.
- what a doofus!
How to say it - not-self is not body/mind? :rolleye:
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Re: Arahantship questions

Postby tiltbillings » Sun May 23, 2010 4:20 pm

Anicca wrote:Sheesh -
self is separate from body/mind.
- what a doofus!
How to say it - not-self is not body/mind? :rolleye:

The sense of self is a product of body/mind.

Monks, whatever contemplatives or priests who assume in various ways when assuming a self, all assume the five clinging-aggregates, or a certain one of them. SN III 46
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Arahantship questions

Postby Wind » Mon May 24, 2010 1:12 am

1. Once the Buddha was hurt, he simply lies down and goes into a meditative state fully aware of the pain as physical pain. The pain eventually subsided. They don't experience emotional pain because all arahant have cut the away the roots of suffering.

2. Arahants do not consider form/body as self. So there is no need to protect it. It will be base on their karma if they are attack. There was an arahant that died after being bitten by a snake. But since Arahants are full of loving-kindness, it is rare that animals would attack them. Some Arahants do have supernatural abilities so they can avoid danger if so choose.

3. That is incorrect that Arahants are in nirvana for short periods. When one is liberated, they are always in Nirvana but they have a remainder that is their body, they call this Nirvana with remainder. And Yes, Arahants still meditate because it sets a good example for others.

4. Yes the Buddha did reach Enlightenment through jhanas. He master all levels of jhanas. But mastering jhanas is not require to be liberated.
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Re: Arahantship questions

Postby zazang » Mon May 24, 2010 5:33 am

Thank you so much for the replies. They do clear up many doubts I had !
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