Dukkha to Craving or Craving to Dukkha

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zazang
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Dukkha to Craving or Craving to Dukkha

Postby zazang » Sun Jun 13, 2010 11:52 am

Hi

According to the 4NT , Craving leads to Suffering. I have a weird fundamental doubt here :-

I agree that there is suffering ( simply because if we are left in a room with food and water we do not remain happy even if it was a sufficient condition for
survival..so by default the human brain keeps us unhappy ). Now please enlighten me which one of the below is true. Please think for yourself for a while
and let me know. I already know what the scripture says ( but remember what the Buddha advises in the kalama Sutta :) )

1. The human brain is Suffering (by nature's design ) and thats why it creates Craving so that the individual works towards eliminating that Craving.
This means that it is the Suffering that leads to the creation of Craving and not the other way round as stated in 4NT

2. The Craving is created first and because the brain sees this craving it starts Suffering.

Metta

zazang

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acinteyyo
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Re: Dukkha to Craving or Craving to Dukkha

Postby acinteyyo » Sun Jun 13, 2010 12:12 pm

zazang wrote:1. The human brain is Suffering (by nature's design ) and thats why it creates Craving so that the individual works towards eliminating that Craving.
This means that it is the Suffering that leads to the creation of Craving and not the other way round as stated in 4NT

2. The Craving is created first and because the brain sees this craving it starts Suffering.

None of the two is true.
If the first would be true, there wouldn't be liberation from suffering. Furhtermore, when one observes life mindfully, one can easily see that without craving for "something" there is no way for suffering to arise. Broadly speaking, suffering arises always sooner or later when there is clinging to (an unfulfilled, because subject to change) desire.
As for the second, there isn't suffering because the brain sees craving but because craving leads to clinging which leads to the whole mass of suffering mentioned in the first noble truth.

best wishes, acinteyyo
Pubbe cāhaṃ bhikkhave, etarahi ca dukkhañceva paññāpemi, dukkhassa ca nirodhaṃ. (M.22)
Api cāhaṃ, āvuso, imasmiṃyeva byāmamatte kaḷevare, sasaññimhi samanake lokañca paññāpemi lokasamudayañca lokanirodhañca lokanirodhagāminiñca paṭipadan. (AN4.45)

:anjali:

zazang
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Re: Dukkha to Craving or Craving to Dukkha

Postby zazang » Sun Jun 13, 2010 2:40 pm

Perfect..all clear now..thanks ! :anjali:

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kc2dpt
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Re: Dukkha to Craving or Craving to Dukkha

Postby kc2dpt » Fri Jun 18, 2010 6:19 pm

The Buddha teaches that craving leads to suffering and, for most people, suffering leads to craving. Thus the wheel of samsara keeps turning.

Interestingly, the Buddha also teaches that for some people suffering leads to the ending of craving. It is due to suffering that one seeks to end craving. See SN 12.23.

I hope this is helpful.
- Peter

Be heedful and you will accomplish your goal.


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