Mahasi Sayadaw - Progress of Insight - Questions

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Mahasi Sayadaw - Progress of Insight - Questions

Postby zazang » Sat Jun 19, 2010 1:07 pm

Hi there

Having read this http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... gress.html , I have some doubts :-

1. It says that the consciousness falls into Nibbana , where there are no formations. He becomes an Arahant.
After sometime , obviously the Arahant comes back to the sensual plane of existance. After this , can that Arahant again
and again still the formations whenever he wants or is it just a one time event in someone's lifespan ? Does the Arahant only see arising-passing of formations after that ?

2. After which knowledge attainments in this progress of Insight , does a person reach the 3 pre-Arahant stages ( Sotapanna , Sagdagamini and Anagamini) ?

3. What exactly is the cause and effect that a yogi notices so that he starts believing that Paticccasamupada ( Dependent Origination ) is true ?

4. From what I make out , a yogi is supposed to note mental constructs and bodily sensations. What if both arise simutaneously ? Should he note any one of them randomly ?

Thank you ,

With Metta
zazang
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Re: Mahasi Sayadaw - Progress of Insight - Questions

Postby mikenz66 » Sun Jun 20, 2010 2:56 am

Hi Zazang,
zazang wrote:Having read this http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... gress.html , I have some doubts :-

The text here: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... gress.html may be easier to read.

Mahasi Sayadaw's text is based on the Visuddhimagga, just describing what the stages are with reference to the Mahasi-style practise, which is described here: Practical Insight Meditation http://aimwell.org/Books/Mahasi/Practic ... tical.html among other places. A more modern and complete translation is on this thread:
http://dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/d ... age/443445
[it is listed as the fifth chapter of a longer book, but is the same thing]

You may find it useful to look at the summary in "CMA", A comprehensive manual of Abhidhamma http://books.google.com.au/books?id=hxo ... &q&f=false
You can read this on-line. The insight section starts on page 344.

zazang wrote:1. It says that the consciousness falls into Nibbana , where there are no formations. He becomes an Arahant.
After sometime , obviously the Arahant comes back to the sensual plane of existance. After this , can that Arahant again
and again still the formations whenever he wants or is it just a one time event in someone's lifespan ? Does the Arahant only see arising-passing of formations after that ?

Not necessarily an Arahant, the same process is said to occur for all four paths. It only lasts a few mind moments.
See CMA page 354, which discusses how the knowledge may be reviewed.

zazang wrote:2. After which knowledge attainments in this progress of Insight , does a person reach the 3 pre-Arahant stages ( Sotapanna , Sagdagamini and Anagamini) ?

The same process happens for all four paths.
zazang wrote:3. What exactly is the cause and effect that a yogi notices so that he starts believing that Paticccasamupada ( Dependent Origination ) is true ?

I'm not quite sure how to exactly map DO onto the Insight Knowledge, but I think that it is particularly the "Knoledge of rise and fall". there is some discussion in the Visuddhimagga XX 93 - 104 that discuss this.
zazang wrote:4. From what I make out , a yogi is supposed to note mental constructs and bodily sensations. What if both arise simutaneously ? Should he note any one of them randomly ?

I suggest you read Mahasi Sayadaw's instructions in the links I gave above and perhaps some of the links here: http://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=341#p6695. The usual advice is to note whatever is most prominent.

Hope this helps.

Mike
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Re: Mahasi Sayadaw - Progress of Insight - Questions

Postby dhamma follower » Sun Jun 20, 2010 3:50 am

mikenz66 wrote:Hi Zazang,
zazang wrote:

zazang wrote:3. What exactly is the cause and effect that a yogi notices so that he starts believing that Paticccasamupada ( Dependent Origination ) is true ?

I'm not quite sure how to exactly map DO onto the Insight Knowledge, but I think that it is particularly the "Knoledge of rise and fall". there is some discussion in the Visuddhimagga XX 93 - 104 that discuss this.


IMO, D.O. can be partly seen at the stage of insight knowledge called Paccaya Pariggaha nana, where one starts to see that things are happening because of cause and effect, there's no one in control. For example: one walks because there's intention to walk, not "I" walk. This nana logically comes up after one becomes aware of the differentiation between mind-body, i.e disidentification with the body-mind process. As it is described in the book, at this stage, the yogi has deep intuition that everything happens just because of cause and effect, it has been like that in the past and will be like that in the future. there's a kind of conviction and a deep sense of both frightening and freedom.
However, at this stage, the "knower" is not yet seen in its reality. Its nature becomes more obvious with the Udayabbayanana,Banga and Baya nana, where yogi experiences the falling away of both object and the awareness of the object (dependently co-arising)...Deeper aspects of D.O is understood increasingly clearer and becomes complete with the experience of the Ultimate.

The Buddha is cool :smile: !

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