Email from tricycle...

A forum for beginners and members of other Buddhist traditions to ask questions about Theravāda (The Way of the Elders). Responses require moderator approval before they are visible.

Email from tricycle...

Postby Mawkish1983 » Sat Jun 26, 2010 5:40 pm

I get daily emails from the 'Tricycle' magazine. Sometimes they can be inspiring, sometimes not. Today's (quoted below) fits clearly in the 'not' category.
One of the great Mahayana innovations was seeing the Buddha not as one particular man in ancient India but as someone signifying transformation brought about by wisdom. Thus Buddha could manifest as any number of people in any number of eras and cultures. What’s most important is the Buddha’s wisdom, not so much the man who was once a prince of the Shakyas. So from the perspective of those schools that came after the Buddha, they did not repudiate the Pali canon, but set it aside for teachings from living Buddhist masters who were considered more relevant spokespeople for the awakened mind. That’s what keeps the tradition vital and evolving. Even today, the contemporary idiom of living teachers is generally considered more useful than the words of the historical Buddha.

-Andrew Olendzki, "Back to the Beginning" (Winter 2003)
I might unsubscribe :s
Mawkish1983
 
Posts: 1175
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:46 am
Location: Essex, UK

Re: Email from tricycle...

Postby acinteyyo » Sat Jun 26, 2010 7:09 pm

This happens when run-off-the-mill people ignorantly believe themselves to be wise enough to add or take something from the Dhamma as taught by the perfectly enlightened One...
Pubbe cāhaṃ bhikkhave, etarahi ca dukkhañceva paññāpemi, dukkhassa ca nirodhaṃ. (M.22)
Both formerly, monks, and now, it is just suffering that I make known and the ending of suffering.
Pathabyā ekarajjena, saggassa gamanena vā sabbalokādhipaccena, sotāpattiphalaṃ varaṃ. (Dhp 178)
Sole dominion over the earth, going to heaven or lordship over all worlds: the fruit of stream-entry excels them.

:anjali:
User avatar
acinteyyo
 
Posts: 1001
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:48 am
Location: Neuburg/Donau, Germany

Re: Email from tricycle...

Postby Hoo » Sat Jun 26, 2010 9:18 pm

I subscribe to the daily feed from Tricycle as well. As I see what they offer, it's a mix of the traditions and schools, and there never seems to me to be much of a bias toward one or another. No telling what the next one will be about.

But I'm also relatively new to Buddhism and willing to accept other views. They may or may not be for me, but I find them interesting, if not always according to what I might believe. So I usually don't mind learning something, even if it's not something that particularly "fits" right now.
Hoo
 
Posts: 189
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:24 am
Location: Missouri, USA

Re: Email from tricycle...

Postby jcsuperstar » Sat Jun 26, 2010 11:20 pm

Mawkish1983 wrote:I get daily emails from the 'Tricycle' magazine. Sometimes they can be inspiring, sometimes not. Today's (quoted below) fits clearly in the 'not' category.
One of the great Mahayana innovations was seeing the Buddha not as one particular man in ancient India but as someone signifying transformation brought about by wisdom. Thus Buddha could manifest as any number of people in any number of eras and cultures. What’s most important is the Buddha’s wisdom, not so much the man who was once a prince of the Shakyas. So from the perspective of those schools that came after the Buddha, they did not repudiate the Pali canon, but set it aside for teachings from living Buddhist masters who were considered more relevant spokespeople for the awakened mind. That’s what keeps the tradition vital and evolving. Even today, the contemporary idiom of living teachers is generally considered more useful than the words of the historical Buddha.

-Andrew Olendzki, "Back to the Beginning" (Winter 2003)
I might unsubscribe :s


this guy is part of the insight meditation society which i assumed to be Theravada...never know i guess
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat
User avatar
jcsuperstar
 
Posts: 1915
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 5:15 am
Location: alaska

Re: Email from tricycle...

Postby Kim OHara » Sat Jun 26, 2010 11:33 pm

That quote and Acinteyyo's response put the spotlight right on a persistent tension within Western Buddhism. It emerges in a few ways:
- People who want to go all the way back to the earliest sources of the scriptures and throw out anything that may have been added after the Buddha's time.
- 'Sceptical Buddhism' (don't accept anything on trust)
- Authoritarianism vs openness
- the 'Religious' model (the Truth has been revealed and all we can do is try to understand it) vs the 'Scientific' model (the discovery of truth is an ongoing process and everyone can contribute according to their ability)
- Reform movements within Asian Theravadin traditions
And of course the Theravada/Mahayana split itself is an example of similar tensions.

I haven't yet resolved it for myself, although (as some of you have probably noticed :tongue: ) I do tend towards rationalist anti-authoritarian positions. But it's an unavoidable challenge for Buddhism in the modern world (and Asian countries are increasingly part of the modern world) because the Religious model - of belief in the unproven and trust in authority - is taking such a hammering from modern society's emphasis on openness, accountability and new discovery.
Look at what has been happening to Christianity in the West: the traditional churches have lost much of their credibility, authority and support, while the new fundamentalist churches (especially in the USA) are blatantly anti-intellectual, anti-science, narrowly sectarian ... I could go on, but I won't.
Do we want Buddhism to follow either of those paths?
If not, how can we define our path?
:thinking:
:namaste:
Kim
User avatar
Kim OHara
 
Posts: 3046
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:47 am
Location: North Queensland, Australia

Re: Email from tricycle...

Postby retrofuturist » Sat Jun 26, 2010 11:44 pm

Greetings Mawkish,

Agreed... it doesn't inspire me either.

On the other hand, the Buddha does.

:buddha1:

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


Dharma Wheel (Mahayana / Vajrayana forum) -- Open flower ~ Open book (blog)
User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
 
Posts: 14654
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Email from tricycle...

Postby jcsuperstar » Sat Jun 26, 2010 11:53 pm

basically what i see it saying is, hey we don't need the Buddha any old guy will do!

whats the point of being a Buddhist if you're not a follower of the Buddha?
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat
User avatar
jcsuperstar
 
Posts: 1915
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 5:15 am
Location: alaska

Re: Email from tricycle...

Postby Kenshou » Sun Jun 27, 2010 12:38 am

To be hip and alternative.
Kenshou
 
Posts: 1029
Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2009 12:03 am
Location: Minneapolis, MN

Re: Email from tricycle...

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Jun 27, 2010 4:34 am

Mawkish1983 wrote:I get daily emails from the 'Tricycle' magazine. Sometimes they can be inspiring, sometimes not. Today's (quoted below) fits clearly in the 'not' category.
One of the great Mahayana innovations was seeing the Buddha not as one particular man in ancient India but as someone signifying transformation brought about by wisdom. Thus Buddha could manifest as any number of people in any number of eras and cultures. What’s most important is the Buddha’s wisdom, not so much the man who was once a prince of the Shakyas. So from the perspective of those schools that came after the Buddha, they did not repudiate the Pali canon, but set it aside for teachings from living Buddhist masters who were considered more relevant spokespeople for the awakened mind. That’s what keeps the tradition vital and evolving. Even today, the contemporary idiom of living teachers is generally considered more useful than the words of the historical Buddha.

-Andrew Olendzki, "Back to the Beginning" (Winter 2003)
I might unsubscribe :s
Actually, I would want to see the context, what was said before and after what is quoted.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
User avatar
tiltbillings
 
Posts: 19373
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: Email from tricycle...

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Jun 27, 2010 4:37 am

tiltbillings wrote:
Mawkish1983 wrote:I get daily emails from the 'Tricycle' magazine. Sometimes they can be inspiring, sometimes not. Today's (quoted below) fits clearly in the 'not' category.
One of the great Mahayana innovations was seeing the Buddha not as one particular man in ancient India but as someone signifying transformation brought about by wisdom. Thus Buddha could manifest as any number of people in any number of eras and cultures. What’s most important is the Buddha’s wisdom, not so much the man who was once a prince of the Shakyas. So from the perspective of those schools that came after the Buddha, they did not repudiate the Pali canon, but set it aside for teachings from living Buddhist masters who were considered more relevant spokespeople for the awakened mind. That’s what keeps the tradition vital and evolving. Even today, the contemporary idiom of living teachers is generally considered more useful than the words of the historical Buddha.

-Andrew Olendzki, "Back to the Beginning" (Winter 2003)
I might unsubscribe :s
Actually, I would want to see the context, what was said before and after what is quoted.


The context: http://www.tricycle.com/interview/back- ... fer=dharma
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
User avatar
tiltbillings
 
Posts: 19373
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: Email from tricycle...

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Jun 27, 2010 4:55 am

In reading through the interview, the problem here is not Andrew Olendzki's quote; it is, rather, Tricycle's taking the above quote out of context.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
User avatar
tiltbillings
 
Posts: 19373
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: Email from tricycle...

Postby alan » Sun Jun 27, 2010 5:11 am

Yes, that is so true. Tricycle pulled that quote and used it as a tease, but it did not reflect the essence of the interview. That is too bad, because he actually had some interesting things to say.
alan
 
Posts: 2542
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2009 12:14 am
Location: Miramar beach, Fl.

Re: Email from tricycle...

Postby retrofuturist » Sun Jun 27, 2010 5:17 am

Greetings,

tiltbillings wrote:
Mawkish1983 wrote:I might unsubscribe :s
Actually, I would want to see the context, what was said before and after what is quoted.

Well, given what you've found, it seems like all the more reason to unsubscribe.

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


Dharma Wheel (Mahayana / Vajrayana forum) -- Open flower ~ Open book (blog)
User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
 
Posts: 14654
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Email from tricycle...

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Jun 27, 2010 5:20 am

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings,

tiltbillings wrote:
Mawkish1983 wrote:I might unsubscribe :s
Actually, I would want to see the context, what was said before and after what is quoted.

Well, given what you've found, it seems like all the more reason to unsubscribe.

Metta,
Retro. :)
I unsubscribed from Tricycle several years ago when I saw that they were taking money from this outfit: http://fredericklenzfoundation.org/Default.aspx which has been spreading money around the Western Buddhist scene quite a bit.

http://fredericklenzfoundation.org/2009 ... rence.aspx
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
User avatar
tiltbillings
 
Posts: 19373
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: Email from tricycle...

Postby alan » Sun Jun 27, 2010 5:23 am

The frustrating thing is that every now and again something useful comes up. But the editors seem to be pandering to an audience that wants to be told the story they want to hear.
-edit I'm finished with them after reading the last post.

Feel better now! Thanks.
alan
 
Posts: 2542
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2009 12:14 am
Location: Miramar beach, Fl.

Re: Email from tricycle...

Postby Kim OHara » Sun Jun 27, 2010 8:11 am

Okay, I'll start by admitting my ignorance ... well, the most relevant bits of it, anyway :tongue: - I have never read Tricycle and had never heard of Frederick Lenz or his Foundation until I read the last few posts of this thread. I have now looked quickly at the Foundation's site.
As far as I can see, Tricycle never claimed to be Theravadin and nor did the Foundation, so it looks like they are both operating within the areas they have always chosen to work in.
So what's source of your sudden disenchantment with Tricycle? Is there something more that I should know?
:shrug:

:namaste:
Kim
User avatar
Kim OHara
 
Posts: 3046
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:47 am
Location: North Queensland, Australia

Re: Email from tricycle...

Postby Mawkish1983 » Sun Jun 27, 2010 8:28 am

Kim O'Hara wrote:So what's source of your sudden disenchantment with Tricycle?
No sudden disenchantment, just another observation that a mainstream publication that claims to be pan-traditional is indirectly and perhaps underhandedly suggesting that the Theravadin path is obsolete. A beginner first discovering Buddhism might be put off this ancient (but still wholey applicable) path by articles such as this. I think it's reckless, irresponsible and unfair on the readers.

Just my opinion. The Buddha deserves the highest respect, and this Buddhist publication is, in my view, suggesting otherwise.

I'll stop now, lest I be sued.
Mawkish1983
 
Posts: 1175
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:46 am
Location: Essex, UK

Re: Email from tricycle...

Postby Mawkish1983 » Sun Jun 27, 2010 8:39 am

Not sure how to guide this thread away from 'the lounge' terrain, so I think I'll leave it for now. As it's 'Discovering Theravada', does anyone know of any Tricycle-like magazines that are more applicable to the Theravada?
Last edited by Mawkish1983 on Sun Jun 27, 2010 8:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
Mawkish1983
 
Posts: 1175
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:46 am
Location: Essex, UK

Re: Email from tricycle...

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Jun 27, 2010 8:47 am

Kim O'Hara wrote:Okay, I'll start by admitting my ignorance ... well, the most relevant bits of it, anyway :tongue: - I have never read Tricycle and had never heard of Frederick Lenz or his Foundation until I read the last few posts of this thread. I have now looked quickly at the Foundation's site.
As far as I can see, Tricycle never claimed to be Theravadin and nor did the Foundation, so it looks like they are both operating within the areas they have always chosen to work in.
So what's source of your sudden disenchantment with Tricycle? Is there something more that I should know?
:shrug:

:namaste:
Kim


Tricycle's openess to all schools is not a problem. Taking money from the Lenz outfit seems a bit questionable to me.

Here is a fairly neutral accounting of self proclaimed Zen Master Rama aka F. Lenz, who killed himself with an overdose: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_Lenz

A bit more info: http://www.skepdic.com/rama.html
Attachments
ZMR2[1].gif
ZMR2[1].gif (61.62 KiB) Viewed 483 times
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
User avatar
tiltbillings
 
Posts: 19373
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: Email from tricycle...

Postby retrofuturist » Sun Jun 27, 2010 8:52 am

Greetings Mawkish,

Mawkish1983 wrote:As it's 'Discovering Theravada', does anyone know of any Tricycle-like magazines that are more applicable to the Theravada?

Not that I'm aware of. Theravada isn't sexy enough to sell magazines.

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


Dharma Wheel (Mahayana / Vajrayana forum) -- Open flower ~ Open book (blog)
User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
 
Posts: 14654
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Next

Return to Discovering Theravāda

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 1 guest