lotuspadma wrote:I was reading a book by Ajahn Brahm, and he mentioned this guy who pushed his friend into the water as a child; his friend drowned. It got me thinking if he is to be blamed for his friend's death or not. He had no intention of doing it, but pushing him into the water was not a very nice thing to do, if he had given enough thought about it, he would have realized the risk. My question is: did he create unwholesome kamma from pushing his friend, from accidentally killing him, or both? Let's disregard the fact that he was a child, and only focus on him not having the intention. Thanks to everyone!
Goofaholix wrote:The trouble with the notion of "no intention = no kamma" is that I don't think there is any such thing as an unintentional action, there are just unintentional results....
....For an action to be unintentional it would have to be out of ones control, my arm never spontaneously darts into the air without my brain telling it to for example. So I guess someone with brain damage or something similar might be capable of unintentional action, but even so a wise person would take steps to minimise potential negative results, like putting away sharp objects for example.
MJH wrote:. A few weeks ago I was driving and a baby bird jumped out in front of my car.... Surely, I must accumulate some negative kamma, although not as much as if I was trying to kill the poor bird.... at least I hope.
Intention, I tell you, is kamma. Intending, one does kamma by way of body, speech, & intellect.
Ben wrote:Hi lotuspadmaIntention, I tell you, is kamma. Intending, one does kamma by way of body, speech, & intellect.
Certainly, there is intention involved in the act, and the vipakka (fruition) of that kamma will relate to it. So, what was the intention? Its impossible for me to speculate on, but it would not surprise me if the two boys were playing.
As to the drowning death of one of the boys, it relates to the fruition of his past kamma, and not the immediate kamma of the boy who did the pushing. Traditionally, the untimely death of a child is sometimes attributed to the vipaka of a violent past life. The little boy who died, had his kamma come to fruition through the agency of play and proximity to water. Its just one of those incredibly tragic things that happen from time to time.
There is no one to blame.
I hope that explains things for you.
MJH wrote:Just to stir the pot.... A few weeks ago I was driving and a baby bird jumped out in front of my car. About 1 meter from me. I slammed on the brakes and swerved, but there was nothing I could do. Now, maybe I'm brain damaged But I clearly had no intention of hitting (and killing) anything.
So how would this fit in? Surely, I must accumulate some negative kamma, although not as much as if I was trying to kill the poor bird.... at least I hope.
It is quite clear from the sutta, that when there is no intention (cetanā), there is no action (kamma). In this case what was actually intended, which result one assumed as outcome of a particular action doesn't matter whether it comes to action or not. It is mostly incomprehensible what results (vipāka) a particular action (kamma) will cause.AN VI.63 wrote:Intention (cetanā), I tell you, is action (kamma). Intending, one does action (kamma) by way of body, speech, & intellect.
Whether he had the intention to kill his friend or not, doesn't matter for the question whether there was action (kamma) or not. It's a matter of fact that he had an intention, and intending he did action.lotuspadma wrote:It got me thinking if he is to be blamed for his friend's death or not. He had no intention of doing it, but pushing him into the water was not a very nice thing to do, if he had given enough thought about it, he would have realized the risk.
bodom wrote:If you want to make up for it, go buy some birdseed, go to the park and feed his hungry friends.
Goofaholix wrote:The bird was careless and flew in front of a moving car, the bird got the results of that kamma. It sounds like you did the best you could under the circumstances, why would you assume this story is about you?
Bubbabuddhist wrote:Hope this isn't too silly a posting. I thought it might help. It's hard to live in this world without inadvertently harming little things. I just try to do so as little as possible.
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