So scared

[jmeff]

When I was 14 I got into zen very intensly with no teacher. I read all sorts of buddist books meditated hours and hours a day. I had some amazing experiences in the beggining. Then when I was 16 I had an experience of complete seperation Some people call it depersonalization. Following that experience I had extreem anxiety and depression. I suffer from PTSD I got as a child also. Anyways I'm 25 years old I've been put on 5 different medications for major depression and spending 7 years in a addiction. I am now 2 years sober in alcoholics anymous. I've been able to find some spirituality but I still have some terrible memories of the feelings and experiences I had while meditating. It's almost tramatic. Whenever someone metions buddism or metitation my heart sinks. Sometimes when it's sunny out I drift deep into that horrible alienation zen brought me. I just wish I never found budism. I Just want to find peace, to heal from this negative association. I know I can't practice buddism anymore, which makes me sad because I did like something about. Like anyone I wanted to be free but instead got punished for it. I thought for awhile if I can't attain enlightenment there's no reason to live. I just want a new path I can walk and make peace with the path. A part if me says the buddist path is the only way to peace. I guess I need clarity and aceptance and permision to follow a different path to peace.

[Hanzze]

_/\_

[Kim O'Hara]

Hello, jmeff
Many of us did things as teenagers that later seem to have not been very smart or sensible, however well-intentioned they were at the time. Yours is a bit unusual, but the way to deal with it must be the usual one: acknowledge the problem (which you've done - good ) and get on with the rest of your life.
If you are still attracted to the Buddhist path but can't deal with meditation, how about looking at the traditional lay Buddhist path - 5 Precepts and a focus on generosity and compassion? It is absolutely valid in its own right, and the stability it can bring to your life may bring you the equanimity to deal more comfortably with the alienation you fell into.
All the best for the future, whatever you decide.

Kim

[Reductor]

I was going to give you permission to take a different path. But Kim has given much better advice.

When we start looking at reality, sometimes we just don't like what we see. If it has caused alienation, then perhaps you should find an experienced meditation teacher in some Buddhist tradition with which to discuss it.

Who knows? Maybe it can come to be moderated into a useful insight, under the tutelage of the right teacher.

And if you don't wish to pursue that path, then, as has been pointed out, there is a very rewarding form of lay practice that you can take up. I wouldn't be surprised if that's just what you need.

[Viscid]

I'm curious as to why you got yourself involved in Zen practice at such an early age? Were you socially secluded? Depressed? Looking for something?

And I agree with Kim's advice. Work on your relationships, career and health. Meditating isn't going to do you any good if you think it harmful.

[jmeff]

Thanks for the replys guys. Ya I don't think what I was practacing was really true buddism. I never had a teacher just me. I used meditation to escape kinda like a drug. I do love the priciples of a lay person but a part of me think there lesser than monks. I dono. I follow the 12 steps of alcoholics anymous. I guess u can look them up if your curious. But it's really all about getting rid of old ideas clearing away the reckage of the past and helping others. Us that good enough????

[Kim O'Hara]

God enough?
It's far more than most people aim for!

Kim

[Hanzze]

_/\_

[Phra Chuntawongso]

Thanks for the replys guys. Ya I don't think what I was practacing was really true buddism. I never had a teacher just me. I used meditation to escape kinda like a drug. I do love the priciples of a lay person but a part of me think there lesser than monks. I dono. I follow the 12 steps of alcoholics anymous. I guess u can look them up if your curious. But it's really all about getting rid of old ideas clearing away the reckage of the past and helping others. Us that good enough????

Nothing wrong with being a lay person my friend.Forget being lesser than a monk.Not all monks may be good monks and there are many good lay people out there.Just look at the kind words and understanding you have received from lay people on this site.
Good luck and best wishes on your path.
With metta,
Phra Greg

[ground]

I guess it is no good idea to start with Zen without buddhist teacher and based on the off-the shelf-Zen-literature that is available in the West. It is likely that one may be deluded into nihilism in that way.
Meditation without having been instructed may be dangerous. Especially if there are certain "non-conducive inclinations".

Kind regards

[Hanzze]

_/\_

[tiltbillings]

As the precepts/compassion is the first active step, not archived a good amount of it meditation leads only to the opposite (harder believe on opinion or believe).

Huh?

[Hanzze]

_/\_

[tiltbillings]

But, tiltbillings,. . .

The "huh?" had to do with not understanding what you said, which is a frequent failing of mine.

[Hanzze]

_/\_

[jmeff]

Thanks again guess, some great advice. I feel like a 2 year old child, very timid and vonerable.

My relationships with my parents is good now, it took awhile to get that back, but its better today than it ever was. I like the idea of lay person, I just can't go too deep with anything or i get scared. I like the idea of compassion and love and helping people. That grounds me. One thing I lost in all my escapades was a real sense of who i am, i guess thats why i got confused because Buddhism always says to get rid of myself. But i don't even know who i am. it feels like i'm trying to get to a destination but i don't even have a clue where i'm starting from, i'm just lost. I mean it is wrong to want to get to know me again, have a sense of identity, i miss that. I miss my innocents.

[Hanzze]

_/\_

[PeterB]

I first encountered the Therevada 40 years ago and this is the first time I have ever seen any mention of ancestors...I think Hannze you might be conflating that with local customs

Dear jmeff,

you get to know your self, when you stay there what actually is. Do you think that in the present, without future and past innocence can be loosed? As long as you take the things simple and stay as well as possible in the present, you will be always innocent. The past is gone.
Kim gave a real good advice, be just mindful in your actions (without history or future) and give your family always a chance. I guess it is good to spend more time with the family and I am sure in some month you will know for you self.

But like always just an opinion, trust you innocence/your heart!
No need to become something what already is.

.

He has already described "what he already is."...scared.
No amount of well meaning denial will alter that. There is no ideal person waiting to be revealed.
He and all of us are creating our future reality.
And in 40 years exposure to the Theravada no one until now has ever even addressed the issue of "the ancestors" That sounds like a residue of Confusiuanism.

[PeterB]

Dear jmeff,

you get to know your self, when you stay there what actually is. Do you think that in the present, without future and past innocence can be loosed? As long as you take the things simple and stay as well as possible in the present, you will be always innocent. The past is gone.
Kim gave a real good advice, be just mindful in your actions (without history or future) and give your family always a chance. I guess it is good to spend more time with the family and I am sure in some month you will know for you self.

But like always just an opinion, trust you innocence/your heart!
No need to become something what already is.[/quote].

He has already described "what he already is."...scared.
No amount of well meaning denial will alter that. There is no ideal person waiting to be revealed.
He and all of us are creating our future reality.
And in 40 years exposure to the Theravada no one until now has ever even addressed the issue of "the ancestors" That sounds like a residue of Confusiuanism.

[Hanzze]

_/\_