Origin of Kamma and Thought

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Origin of Kamma and Thought

Postby VictoryInTruth » Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:24 pm

From what I have read from the Buddhist resources I have come across online Kamma is described as an invisible force or energy. I don´t know whether this is correct but it causes me to ask the question then of where did Kamma or the law of Kamma originate?

And since Kamma is action and our thoughts play upon Kamma and cause the world around us to become a reality...doesn't this make us (our thoughts) our own creators?

I apologize if this has been asked over and over on this forum but in searching I couldn't find a thread that exactly answered my questions. Thanks in advance.

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Re: Origin of Kamma and Thought

Postby retrofuturist » Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:55 pm

Greetings VictoryInTruth,

VictoryInTruth wrote:From what I have read from the Buddhist resources I have come across online Kamma is described as an invisible force or energy.

I would put those Buddhist sources away, because they don't accord with the suttas and how kamma is explained within the Buddha's teaching.

VictoryInTruth wrote:I don´t know whether this is correct but it causes me to ask the question then of where did Kamma or the law of Kamma originate?

Forget "law of kamma" - kamma originates with intention/will (cetana), or as you say below... "action".

VictoryInTruth wrote:And since Kamma is action and our thoughts play upon Kamma and cause the world around us to become a reality...

Whoa, now you're stepping well outside the bounds of what the Buddha taught on kamma. Nowhere does the Buddha say that "the world around us" is a "reality", let alone the product of kamma.

VictoryInTruth wrote:doesn't this make us (our thoughts) our own creators?

In a sense, yes... but not in the sense you're thinking.

VictoryInTruth wrote:I apologize if this has been asked over and over on this forum but in searching I couldn't find a thread that exactly answered my questions. Thanks in advance.

No worries. I think most members are happy when people ask sincere questions.

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


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Re: Origin of Kamma and Thought

Postby Cessation » Mon Jan 31, 2011 11:06 pm

Buddha said that is one of the imponderables is to seek out the inner workings of Kamma. Since the goal is Arhatship I think that would lead away from the goal.
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Re: Origin of Kamma and Thought

Postby VictoryInTruth » Mon Jan 31, 2011 11:30 pm

Thank you retrofuturist for your short and to the point responses. I have for the most part have been reading online about Buddhism since I had lost my old books on Buddhism a while back. I am in the process of re-learning all I had discovered about Buddhism years back and it's not easy trying to sort out what is authentic Theravadan Buddhist teachings from the inauthentic.

I ordered some books from the Buddhist publication society and sent for some free books that teach from the Forest tradition but they will take awhile to get to me...so in the mean time most of my questions on Buddhism will have to be answered here on these forums. I hope that I won't make any of you lose patience with me.

Thanks again.

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Re: Origin of Kamma and Thought

Postby retrofuturist » Mon Jan 31, 2011 11:34 pm

Greetings Victory In Truth,

I think you have a good plan there. :thumbsup:

In the meantime, if you're looking to read some things, have a look around Access To Insight - it's a great website.

Being online too means that if there's anything you read that you have questions about, it's easy to discuss here at Dhamma Wheel in parallel, with URL links, tracts of text etc. sourced from A2I.

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


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Re: Origin of Kamma and Thought

Postby ground » Tue Feb 01, 2011 5:35 am

VictoryInTruth wrote:...doesn't this make us (our thoughts) our own creators?


Thoughts are creators.

Kind regards
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Re: Origin of Kamma and Thought

Postby IanAnd » Tue Feb 01, 2011 6:07 am

VictoryInTruth wrote:From what I have read from the Buddhist resources I have come across online Kamma is described as an invisible force or energy. I don´t know whether this is correct but it causes me to ask the question then of where did Kamma . . . originate?

Retro has already responded wisely to your first question re: kamma equated with "invisible force or energy."

A similar question about kamma was asked a few weeks ago in another forum here, and this response may provide you with a more thorough answer to your second question regarding how the Buddha viewed kamma.
"The gift of truth exceeds all other gifts" — Dhammapada, v. 354 Craving XXIV
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Re: Origin of Kamma and Thought

Postby rowyourboat » Tue Feb 01, 2011 8:33 am

For a different view:


"Monks, the taking of life — when indulged in, developed, & pursued — is something that leads to hell, leads to rebirth as a common animal, leads to the realm of the hungry shades. The slightest of all the results coming from the taking of life is that, when one becomes a human being, it leads to a short life span.

"Stealing — when indulged in, developed, & pursued — is something that leads to hell, leads to rebirth as a common animal, leads to the realm of the hungry shades. The slightest of all the results coming from stealing is that, when one becomes a human being, it leads to the loss of one's wealth.

"Illicit sexual behavior — when indulged in, developed, & pursued — is something that leads to hell, leads to rebirth as a common animal, leads to the realm of the hungry shades. The slightest of all the results coming from illicit sexual behavior is that, when one becomes a human being, it leads to rivalry & revenge.

"Telling falsehoods — when indulged in, developed, & pursued — is something that leads to hell, leads to rebirth as a common animal, leads to the realm of the hungry shades. The slightest of all the results coming from telling falsehoods is that, when one becomes a human being, it leads to being falsely accused.

"Divisive tale-bearing — when indulged in, developed, & pursued — is something that leads to hell, leads to rebirth as a common animal, leads to the realm of the hungry shades. The slightest of all the results coming from divisive tale-bearing is that, when one becomes a human being, it leads to the breaking of one's friendships.

"Harsh speech — when indulged in, developed, & pursued — is something that leads to hell, leads to rebirth as a common animal, leads to the realm of the hungry shades. The slightest of all the results coming from harsh speech is that, when one becomes a human being, it leads to unappealing sounds.

"Frivolous chattering — when indulged in, developed, & pursued — is something that leads to hell, leads to rebirth as a common animal, leads to the realm of the hungry shades. The slightest of all the results coming from frivolous chattering is that, when one becomes a human being, it leads to words that aren't worth taking to heart.

"The drinking of fermented & distilled liquors — when indulged in, developed, & pursued — is something that leads to hell, leads to rebirth as a common animal, leads to the realm of the hungry shades. The slightest of all the results coming from drinking fermented & distilled liquors is that, when one becomes a human being, it leads to mental derangement."

See also: AN 4.111, as an example of harsh training.
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Re: Origin of Kamma and Thought

Postby VictoryInTruth » Wed Feb 02, 2011 1:58 pm

Thank you Ian for the link to the other thread.

And thanks to you as well rowyourboat for the different view.

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