Adoration/worship of the Buddha promoted?

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Adoration/worship of the Buddha promoted?

Postby Wizard in the Forest » Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:59 am

Is there any sutta where the Buddha calls for people to worship him or the flipside, where the Buddha asks not to be worshiped?
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Re: Adoration/worship of the Buddha promoted?

Postby ground » Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:26 am

Wizard in the Forest wrote:Is there any sutta where the Buddha calls for people to worship him ...

Certainly not.
Wizard in the Forest wrote:or the flipside, where the Buddha asks not to be worshiped?

If there is then that would be another reason for veneration, expressed e.g. through offerings.

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Re: Adoration/worship of the Buddha promoted?

Postby cooran » Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:42 am

Hello Wizard,

Here is a video by Venerable Dr Mettanando called How do Buddhists worship? ‘’Usually, in the West, worship means rituals, but to worship is something personal, something that you revere with your sincere feeling you offer to some particular person, or some authority, or some kind of abstract goodness. Worship can be done without any priests. It doesn't need a church, only the mind. In the very oldest teachings of Buddha, it is the mind that has a deep respect to the Dharma, and they think this is the original teaching of the Buddha. The Buddha said, "I always worship the Dharma." The way he worshiped the Dharma is by living it, by helping other people. By worshiping the Dharma, one becomes the embodiment of the Dharma.’’
http://www.videojug.com/expertanswer/th ... ts-worship

Here are some quotes from the Suttas mentioning 'homage' 'reverence' 'honor' and 'worship' - all meaning 'hold in great respect'.

"There is the case where a woman or man is obstinate & arrogant. He/she does not pay homage to those who deserve homage, rise up for those for whom one should rise up, give a seat to those to whom one should give a seat, make way for those for whom one should make way, worship those who should be worshipped, respect those who should be respected, revere those who should be revered, or honor those who should be honored. Through having adopted & carried out such actions, on the break-up of the body, after death, he/she reappears in the plane of deprivation... If instead he/she comes to the human state, then he/she is low-born wherever reborn. This is the way leading to a low birth: to be obstinate & arrogant, not to pay homage to those who deserve homage, nor rise up for... nor give a seat to... nor make way for... nor worship... nor respect... nor revere... nor honor those who should be honored.
"But then there is the case where a woman or man is not obstinate or arrogant; he/she pays homage to those who deserve homage, rises up... gives a seat... makes way... worships... respects... reveres... honors those who should be honored. Through having adopted & carried out such actions, on the break-up of the body, after death, he/she reappears in a good destination... If instead he/she comes to the human state, then he/she is highborn wherever reborn. This is the way leading to a high birth: not to obstinate or arrogant; to pay homage to those who deserve homage, to rise up... give a seat... make way... worship... respect... revere... honor those who should be honored.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

16. "There are four places, Ananda, that a pious person should visit and look upon with feelings of reverence.[42] What are the four?
17. "'Here the Tathagata was born!'[43] This, Ananda, is a place that a pious person should visit and look upon with feelings of reverence.
18. "'Here the Tathagata became fully enlightened in unsurpassed, supreme Enlightenment!'[44] This, Ananda, is a place that a pious person should visit and look upon with feelings of reverence.
19. "'Here the Tathagata set rolling the unexcelled Wheel of the Dhamma!'[45] This, Ananda, is a place that a pious person should visit and look upon with feelings of reverence.
20. "'Here the Tathagata passed away into the state of Nibbana in which no element of clinging remains!' This, Ananda, is a place that a pious person should visit and look upon with feelings of reverence.
21. "These, Ananda, are the four places that a pious person should visit and look upon with feelings of reverence. And truly there will come to these places, Ananda, pious bhikkhus and bhikkhunis, laymen and laywomen, reflecting: 'Here the Tathagata was born! Here the Tathagata became fully enlightened in unsurpassed, supreme Enlightenment! Here the Tathagata set rolling the unexcelled Wheel of the Dhamma! Here the Tathagata passed away into the state of Nibbana in which no element of clinging remains!'
22. "And whoever, Ananda, should die on such a pilgrimage with his heart established in faith, at the breaking up of the body, after death, will be reborn in a realm of heavenly happiness."
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .html#pil4

106. Though month after month for a hundred years one should offer sacrifices by the thousands, yet if only for a moment one should worship those of perfected minds that honor is indeed better than a century of sacrifice.
107. Though for a hundred years one should tend the sacrificial fire in the forest, yet if only for a moment one should worship those of perfected minds, that worship is indeed better than a century of sacrifice.
108. Whatever gifts and oblations one seeking merit might offer in this world for a whole year, all that is not worth one fourth of the merit gained by revering the Upright Ones, which is truly excellent.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .budd.html

with metta
Chris
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Re: Adoration/worship of the Buddha promoted?

Postby rowyourboat » Tue Feb 08, 2011 7:11 am

The whole concept behind worshiping monks etc is that we are actually worshiping the good qualities in them-their mental development, their discipline, their loving-kindness and their wisdom. We (should) value and honour such qualities- only then will we be motivated to develop those qualities ourselves. In Buddhism, the path is open for you, yourselves to become 'worshipable' by progressing on the path, and is not reserved for a priestly class.

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Re: Adoration/worship of the Buddha promoted?

Postby Ben » Tue Feb 08, 2011 7:17 am

I always thought that 'worship' may have been a poor translation of a word that doesn't have an exact match in English. For those of us who grew up in Christian traditions, 'worship' has some distinctly negative overtones.
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Re: Adoration/worship of the Buddha promoted?

Postby cooran » Tue Feb 08, 2011 7:33 am

Hello all,

Taking a realistic view of some monks in, say, Thailand – it is apparent that the lay disciples are quite aware of those in the local Sangha who are not keeping the Vinaya and who have unwholesome actions.

If you are ever giving alms with Thai friends on the streets of Bangkok, you may occasionally come across a situation where they refuse to invite a bhikkhu by ‘not seeing him’ and by ‘ not making an invitational wei/bow’.

Not all monks command respect – often they are as variable as we lay people are regarding keeping strict Sila – but it is the yellow Robes they wear … The Banner of the Arahants - which draws our respect and worship.

with metta
Chris.
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
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Re: Adoration/worship of the Buddha promoted?

Postby rowyourboat » Tue Feb 08, 2011 9:24 am

Ben wrote:I always thought that 'worship' may have been a poor translation of a word that doesn't have an exact match in English. For those of us who grew up in Christian traditions, 'worship' has some distinctly negative overtones.


Hi Ben,

Would you say that 'paying respect' would be a better way to comminucate what we do?

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Re: Adoration/worship of the Buddha promoted?

Postby legolas » Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:13 am

Adoration implies love which is perhaps closer to the attitude we might want.
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Re: Adoration/worship of the Buddha promoted?

Postby Ben » Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:14 am

Hi Matheesha,

rowyourboat wrote:
Ben wrote:I always thought that 'worship' may have been a poor translation of a word that doesn't have an exact match in English. For those of us who grew up in Christian traditions, 'worship' has some distinctly negative overtones.


Hi Ben,

Would you say that 'paying respect' would be a better way to comminucate what we do?

With metta

Matheesha


Paying respects - absolutely. Veneration - yes, Devotion - yes.
Worship to me is sometihng akin to propitiation.
Perhaps its just my hangup...
kind regards

Ben
"One cannot step twice into the same river, nor can one grasp any mortal substance in a stable condition, but it scatters and again gathers; it forms and dissolves, and approaches and departs."

- Hereclitus


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