Ajahn Chah Zen Theravada?

[Dan74]

It is really a problem of talking something that was meant as a here-and-now discourse to a specific group of people and writing it down and now here we are talking about it as if it's some sort of doctrine, which it isn't. My sense is that he would be very much disturbed to see this kind of debate over his talks.

Hello meindzai,

Just as an aside, weren't the Suttas originally "here-and-now" discourses for "a specific group of people?" Ultimately, a teacher can only teach "here-and-now" to "a specific group of people." Otherwise the teacher would be more of a philosopher, no? In the end, it's all about getting down to the root of this "birth and death" thing, no?

(My apologies if "necor-posting" is frowned upon here)

Metta and Anjali,

Saijun

Good points, the tendency to "reify", to see it as doctrine and then hold on to it, is strong. But to start with, it's OK I think. There is much that we hold on to that would be great to replace with "Buddhist dogma" for a while!

[PeterB]

That is a good point Dan...I think we can be too hard on ourselves , thinking that we have to launch into sunnata before next tuesday.

I think I may have over egged the pudding earlier in this thread. In emphasising Ajahn Chah's distancing himself from reliance of concepts I may have made some concepts more worthy of distance that others..And in terms of utility that may not have been skillful.
If the raft floats....

[m0rl0ck]

Seems pretty simple to me. They (zen and forest tradition) are reporting the same experience so it sounds similar. Check the sig.

[Moth]

Many people contend that since the mind is inherently pure, since we all have Buddha nature, it's not necessary to practise. But this is like taking something clean, like this tray, for example, and thenI come and drop some dung on it. Will you say that this tray is originally clean, and so you don't have to do anything to clean it now?"

-A Tree in the Forest

[Metta2U108]

He had a lot of respect for Huineng. His words were, "his dhamma was very keen."

[samsarictravelling]

Alright weird title. But I am curious after reading through many talks by Ajahn Chah. It seems as if he has a zen like approach. Sort of just do it and also the fact that he keeps saying that we can be liberated at any moment. From this perspective it seems zen like, but perhaps its because I dont know shit about theravada buddhism. So my question is are these teachings the same thing in Theravada? I had a theravada monk tell me that anyone can be enlightened if they have enough merit.. so that sort of at least in my eyes contradicted the view that at any moment we can transcend merit and become enlightened. Look forward to your enlightened replies

I read in the past from just some author, or somewhere -- not the suttas -- the different types of Buddhism differ in their 'philosophy' behind meditation, but the meditation is the same.

[bridif1]

Alright weird title. But I am curious after reading through many talks by Ajahn Chah. It seems as if he has a zen like approach. Sort of just do it and also the fact that he keeps saying that we can be liberated at any moment. From this perspective it seems zen like, but perhaps its because I dont know shit about theravada buddhism. So my question is are these teachings the same thing in Theravada? I had a theravada monk tell me that anyone can be enlightened if they have enough merit.. so that sort of at least in my eyes contradicted the view that at any moment we can transcend merit and become enlightened. Look forward to your enlightened replies

I read in the past from just some author, or somewhere -- not the suttas -- the different types of Buddhism differ in their 'philosophy' behind meditation, but the meditation is the same.

Hi Samsarictravelling!

What does it mean or imply for different meditation styles to be the same?
What stays the same?
The method? The results?

After all, in some Vajrayana practices there is plenty of use of visualization of deities or other kind of images.

Kind regards!

[markandeya]

The Truth Is Always the Same

Many well read people would comment that Luang Pu's teachings were very similar to those of Zen or the Platform Sutra. I asked him about this many times, and finally he replied in an trans-personal way.

" All the Truths of the Dharma are already present in the world. When the Buddha Awakened to those Truths, he brought them out to teach to the beings of the world. Now, because those beings had different propensities - coarse or refined - he had to use up a lot of words: 84,0000 sections of dharma in all. When wise people try to select the words best suited to explain the Truth to those who aim at the Truth, they have to use the methods of the Truth that, on reflection, are the most corrected and complete, without worrying about the words or getting fixated on the letters of the texts in the least way at all."

Gifts He Left Behind

The Dharma Legacy of Phra Ajaan Dune Atulo

[markandeya]

Deleted double post

[samsarictravelling]

Alright weird title. But I am curious after reading through many talks by Ajahn Chah. It seems as if he has a zen like approach. Sort of just do it and also the fact that he keeps saying that we can be liberated at any moment. From this perspective it seems zen like, but perhaps its because I dont know shit about theravada buddhism. So my question is are these teachings the same thing in Theravada? I had a theravada monk tell me that anyone can be enlightened if they have enough merit.. so that sort of at least in my eyes contradicted the view that at any moment we can transcend merit and become enlightened. Look forward to your enlightened replies

I read in the past from just some author, or somewhere -- not the suttas -- the different types of Buddhism differ in their 'philosophy' behind meditation, but the meditation is the same.

Hi Samsarictravelling!

What does it mean or imply for different meditation styles to be the same?
What stays the same?
The method? The results?

After all, in some Vajrayana practices there is plenty of use of visualization of deities or other kind of images.

Kind regards!

I don't talk about everything I practice or know or believe, so to conclude what I said, with that in mind:

It's just something I read, and may have mixed it up in some way or ways possibly. Sorry, it's just a thing I half-remember -- not sure if I even got it basically correct -- so it's basically nonsense, and I can't even remember who said it -- so that shows it was not that important to me.

But I can support that same statement of mine ['I read in the past from just some author,...but the meditation is the same.'] with thoughts/beliefs, possibly even 'knowledge', but like I said I don't say everything I know, believe, or practice, so I won't support my statement. So let's leave it at that, I guess?...

samsarictravelling

[bridif1]

I don't talk about everything I practice or know or believe, so to conclude what I said, with that in mind:

It's just something I read, and may have mixed it up in some way or ways possibly. Sorry, it's just a thing I half-remember -- not sure if I even got it basically correct -- so it's basically nonsense, and I can't even remember who said it -- so that shows it was not that important to me.

But I can support that same statement of mine ['I read in the past from just some author,...but the meditation is the same.'] with thoughts/beliefs, possibly even 'knowledge', but like I said I don't say everything I know, believe, or practice, so I won't support my statement. So let's leave it at that, I guess?...

samsarictravelling

I understand.
Have a nice day!

[samsarictravelling]

I don't talk about everything I practice or know or believe, so to conclude what I said, with that in mind:

It's just something I read, and may have mixed it up in some way or ways possibly. Sorry, it's just a thing I half-remember -- not sure if I even got it basically correct -- so it's basically nonsense, and I can't even remember who said it -- so that shows it was not that important to me.

But I can support that same statement of mine ['I read in the past from just some author,...but the meditation is the same.'] with thoughts/beliefs, possibly even 'knowledge', but like I said I don't say everything I know, believe, or practice, so I won't support my statement. So let's leave it at that, I guess?...

samsarictravelling

I understand.
Have a nice day!

Ok

[Caodemarte]

...
Many well read people would comment that Luang Pu's teachings were very similar to those of Zen or the Platform Sutra.....

".....When wise people try to select the words best suited to explain the Truth to those who aim at the Truth, they have to use the methods of the Truth that, on reflection, are the most corrected and complete, without worrying about the words or getting fixated on the letters of the texts in the least way at all."
....